Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

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TechMOGogy
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Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:29 pm

Hmmm I wonder (and yes that is metal)
Pre filter was packed :)
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72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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edzz
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by edzz » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:09 pm

Looks like it's time for a locking gas cap. :shock:
Ed
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boeing7873
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by boeing7873 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:48 pm

Beautiful. Nothing like having a problem and finding such an obvious, cheap and easy solution.
clap clap clap
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rmel
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by rmel » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:46 pm

Question is where did the metal bits come from?
Looks like materiel from a fine tooth cutting blade,
might want to see if it is magnetic. or SS material.
IMHO I'd pull your tank plug and and flush the heck
out of your tank :wink:
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:41 am

Since it is getting cold... plan is to drop the tank and get it cleaned and relined in the Spring so it is good for another 40+ years :)
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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totaljoint
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by totaljoint » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:40 pm

After the EFI conversion, my 712 ran like a top... until one fill up at the wrong gas station.
I had a similar amount of metal debris problems in the filters. I won't forget poor Andre in a cold
Western Washington barn rebuilding a fuel system in January!

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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:23 pm

totaljoint wrote:After the EFI conversion, my 712 ran like a top... until one fill up at the wrong gas station.
I had a similar amount of metal debris problems in the filters. I won't forget poor Andre in a cold
Western Washington barn rebuilding a fuel system in January!
Sounds familiar and my new injectors just arrived today
Waiting for 1 more filter to arrive and then hopefully this weekend, in 32 degree weather, I will be recreating your experience
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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totaljoint
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by totaljoint » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:25 pm

As I recall, flushing out the gas tank and all it's baffles took the most time, yielded the most particulates and we then put some neodynium magnets int he tank
to catch anything we couldn't see or flush-- and for future bad gas contamination possibilities.
A cheaper Harbor Freight flexible fiber optic scope helped a great deal in inspecting the tank,
but in the end the plastic camera end of it didn't survive the prolonged immersion in gas.
I recommend the magnets. Lets see if Andre concurs....
If you and I had metal shavings in gas, wonder how many other have had it?
My bad gas came from a "no ethanol" gas pump.

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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Warm day (45) so took the day off and swapped all filters and even put new injectors in (Jim’s EFI on it)
Pinz still has fuel delivery issues so perhaps the fuel pump?
Thoughts - it won’t really catch, just turns over
Edit: it also backfired so lean
Thx
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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Jimm391730
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by Jimm391730 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:02 pm

The only problem I ever had with the EFI conversion was the external fuel pump; either getting vapor lock (at 107F desert temperature) at anything below 3/4 tank, or (after fixing that issue by draining off the bottom of the tank from the drain fitting, and putting the pump at that level) getting air entrapment due to the suction vortex when pulling from the bottom of the tank (only at low tank levels).

The pump needs to be capable of producing 50 psi or more at the flow rate that is needed (probably 99% of the fuel gets returned to the tank). If the pump is not up to this, or the filters are clogged, then the EFI system certainly won't work as intended or expected. You should have a high flow rate filter in the suction side of the pump, and a high pressure filter in the outlet side of the pump. The suction side filter keeps the bigger particles out of the pump (to prevent wear) and the outlet side ensures that tiny particles won't clog or foul the injectors. Both are very important to the EFI system.

When Andre made my extra large capacity fuel tank, we installed an in-tank Walbro pump with an attached fuel sock (this is now the suction side filter). The sock is fairly large (2 x 5") so no suction vortex is created outside of it; the pump is always immersed in fuel (except a very low levels) so vapor lock has gone away. We even routed the return hose into a different baffle section of the tank as to not create foam or bubbles that the pump would immediately pickup (they have a chance to dissipate by the time the fuel gets into the adjacent baffle section where the pump is located). All these features have completely eliminated the problems that I had before with the external pump, and the engine runs much smoother and more consistently from a full tank to virtually empty.

You'll should check to see if any of the problems (and solutions) that I have found are part of your problem. Best of luck.
Jim M.
712W and 710M

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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:53 am

It has been fine all spring and summer driving every few days, 30mins to 1.5 hours+
Only issues have been since the wonderful metal in the fuel filter. Tank looks clean now (did a camera inspection but obviously I can see past various baffles). Fuel filter between tank and pump is a high flow and clear (so I can inspect it, so far no more metal bits). After the pump I have a new filter (same as what I was using all summer) and then added the new injectors (had spares so thought it would not hurt).
I have a spare fuel pump but was lazy yesterday and since it was kicking in and seemed to be working I did not replace it
Hopefully I can replace it this weekend - warm yesterday and snow expected today :(
Will report back - thx
Last edited by TechMOGogy on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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rmel
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by rmel » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:30 am

Well now I understand what people meant when they said bargain gas
is from the bottom of the barrel :wink:
Puller: 710K 2.7L EFI
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:02 pm

Replaced all fuel filters, fuel pump, lines and injectors - still not happy
Talked to Jim and he said to check the crank sensor.
Cranking showed zero rpm so no spark signal to coils.
Cleaned and replaced it and it started right up but issue returned once warm
I am going to replace the crank sensor and double check the wiring.
That should hopefully solve the issue and get me back on the road before the snow flies
Today working outside at below 40 degrees kinda sucked :)
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

whitesik
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by whitesik » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:24 pm

Forgive my newby ignorance but what is the crank sensor? Are you referring to the 4500 module?
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TechMOGogy
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Re: Why did my Pinz have fuel delivery issues

Post by TechMOGogy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:16 pm

whitesik wrote:Forgive my newby ignorance but what is the crank sensor? Are you referring to the 4500 module?
I have Jim LaGuardia’s EFI so it a part of the EFI vs a stock Pinz setup
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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