Back firing - loss of power - dead machine - you name it.

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:02 am

So some background. Had the carbs rebuilt and got a new/used/refurbished Distributor for my pinz and a new rotor and distributor cap - wires - plugs - fuel filter - THE WORKS.

Ran GREAT - then I took it fishing.....I also put in a new fuel gauge. On the way back>>>>>>

I was coming up a steep grade and the truck started to back fire and hesitate...crap outta gas I guess.

Stopped to put some gas from the jerry cans in.....put 10 gallons in and it ran like crap for about 30 miles....it would run and then lose power and then die....had to pump the gas to get it to start...it would go good for about 3 miles and then die.

30 miles I got to a service station and filled up....did the same thing for about 40 miles and then started running better....

Ran great for about three days....headed back fishing with my son....100 KMS ourt of whitehorse it did the same thing again....it was running perfect..100 kms/per hour..piece of cake....then it started backfiring and then it would lose power and we had to pull over and try and start it again. The only way it would run initially was to put my hand (with a glove on) over the air intake...it would back fire etc and then rev up with power..we would go about 3 miles and it would start all over again.

I removed the air filter - NO CHANGE.

I nursed it down to the river about 180 kms away (yes I am stubborn).

We fished and then I tore the dog house off and started looking around ( I am not a mechanic BUT I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE A PINZ RELATED COURSE SOON).

I found the choke wasn't completely going off so I lubed the linkage and and reset the cable so it would go off completely. ALSO the carbs were full of oil (must be from me covering the air intake). I cleaned the oil out but didn't have any carb cleaner.

Then I found a solenoid that was loose and the wire was off (don't like these connectors much...they are lose all over the pinz in different places....

So I started it up thinking WELL I MUST have found the problems. So I started her up with a bit of choke and it ran great....dumped the choke after it warmed up and started up the big hill......powered out again and started backfiring. I nursed to the top of the hill and all the way home...yes 220 kms of stopping every 3-5 miles and waiting for the carbs to clear so it would power up again....I could get it to run ok at idle but soon as you put any throttle forget it.

I would get up to 70 kms in 5th and just let it idle and it was fine...then I would get to a hill and forget it.

Anyway.....DO YOU THINK it's the fuel pump?....water in the tank - crap in the tank?

I poured a bottle of GALINE ANTIFREEZE in there too...no change or help.

Sorry but I just want to get her running and be reliable again.

I have a video I will add so you can see ok...just need to let it upload ok

Thanks
Jer Bear

edzz · Post by **edzz** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:19 am

First make sure the connections to the fuel shut off solenoids are properly secured you may need to pinch the connector lightly with a pair of pliers.
Second thing that comes to mind for me is to change the fuel filter and inspect the fuel tank for crap.

Ed

michaelh712 · Post by **michaelh712** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:49 am

Frustrating, to be sure, but not impossible to diagnose, just elusive. Basic troubleshooting: Mechanical, electrical or fuel related? Under what condition(s) does it happen and when does the problem not happen? These vehicles, like old VW's can also run for a long time with one problem, then another added to it and it barely runs.
Sounds like yours is more fuel related, and happens when warm and when under load (calling for more fuel).
I had the same symptoms a few years back, went the full route you describe only to find the problem was more simple and obvious.
Check or replace the fuel lines. The ends crack over time, not enough to visibly leak fuel, but just enough when hot and under load to suck air into the line, starving the carbs of fuel, causing the symptoms you described. This was common of old VW's as well, similar parts/design. Try cutting the last inch off of the line and look for small cracks on the piece you removed. These get hard over time. When replacing with new fuel line, leave these longer than needed to allow for "trimming" periodically. Fixed my problem, worth looking at.
As an old electrician told me years ago when I was trying to troubleshoot a problem in new construction I was working on: "Always look for horses (easy, obvious, simple), there are a hell of alot more of them than zebras (rare, difficult, expensive).
Michael

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:37 am

So here's the video I promissed ok...thanks for the info I will go through her today in the shop at the college...nice to be back home though....

what I had to do to keep her going...

I will go through all the stuff today including draining the tank...is there a flush you can get for it?

Jer Bear

Jimm391730 · Post by **Jimm391730** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:50 am

A couple of things come to (my limited) mind:
1. Red death in the tank. Sometimes clogs the pickup, sometimes doesn't. Check the fuel filter for red flakes.
2. Cracked fuel hoses (allowing air to be sucked in) or bad fuel pump. Disconnect fuel line at carbs and check delivery when cranking. If foamy, you have an air leak.
3. I had a similar progressive worsening of performance due to the 4500 RPM module going bad. Test by measuring the voltage at the coil (not distributor side) when it is running; ~17 volts is OK. Mine was reading 7 volts! Made for very weak spark. But the module died gradually and unevenly (sometimes it would work OK, somedays not so good) but eventually got worse and worse. There is a simple bypass that can be done to test and/or correct a bad module, I'll have to look to give you directions (or ask Jim L, he solved my problem).

Others may have good suggestions, too, but these ideas have relatively easy methods to check quickly.

Best of luck,

Jim M.
712W and 710M

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:55 am

OK thanks ( i bought new hose - clamps - spark plugs - 2 - fuel filters just so I have some spare parts for down the road

SOMETHING ELSE I NOTICED was when I pulled the air breather the RUBBER MOUNTS were MISSING. They were there the last time I had anything to do with it...but gone after the carb re-build....I don't think it's good to run it without it right...air can be sucked in without having to go through the air filter right..sorry on a steep climb in my mechanical career here.

Jer Bear

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:29 pm

I checked the solenoids and they click and I tightened the connections etc....they seem ok - fuel hoses are next - one thing at a time

So here's a video of what it starts like...pump the crap out of her an then give it full throttle it runs and then dies?

here's a pic to show you the breather adn the carbs...notice NO RUBBER MOUNTS

Jer Bear

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:23 pm

Jerry,

At worst, if you're leaking air there, you'll be inhaling unfiltered air, basically. I don't think that's your problem. Sounds like fuel problems.

Pull the air filter canister complete, loosening it from the air box at the rubber connector (about a 4" hose clamp). Next remove the air box above the carbs. Now you can access the carbs as well as the fuel delivery parts (hoses, filter, pump).

Dump a little gas (Tsp.) into each carburetor. Does truck at least start up and run right for a few seconds? If it runs ok with gas provided, then the engine, etc. is likely not the problem - fuel delivery is.

As others have already suggested:
If your fuel filter is clear, does it have visible debris in it? A filter is cheap, it might be worth a try just to swap it anyway, prophylactically.

Inspect all hoses for age - cracks, dried out ends. Replace anything questionable, they're dirt cheap too. Working yet?

Disconnect your heater/s fuel supply. If they're leaking somewhere, they could be allowing air into the fuel line.

To eliminate the possibility of debris or some clog in the tank, run a fuel line from the fuel pump input into a container (empty 1qt oil bottle) filled partway with gasoline, to use as a temporary fuel tank. If it runs this way, it would suggest that your fuel pump is OK.

At this point, I'd open the access cover in the bed, right over the fuel sender, and remove the sender to look into the tank for debris. There's a drain on the tank bottom.

You keep this up, you'll be a mechanic.

Let us know what you find.

Paul

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:06 pm

thanks Paul...So I have replaced ALL THE HOSES....and the GASLINE FILTER...

I will do the bottle of fuel next..

getting there...I don't mind this stuff as much as I thought I would.

Hey you guys should check these guys out from Austria - THEY LOVED TO SEE THE PINZ..I met them on a fishing trip the other day...They have been travelling for 2.5 YEARS...great guys.

Let them shoot my 12 gauge shotgun (they had never shot one before) they got a real KICK out of it...hahahhahahaha.

They liked the bow better (quieter).

www.oncearoundtheworld.com

They made a mud oven for smoking fish and making pizza with only a swede saw and an axe

karoja · Post by **karoja** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:46 pm

Sounds like the checkvalve in the fuel pump went bad. Just went through it. Rebuild parts are cheap at EI or SAV.

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:21 pm

SO here is a big grizz we saw on our way too.

Well here's the maiden start up....I have replaced all hoses - clamps - spray some carb cleaner in her and have it running on a jug of fuel BYPASSING the filter for now.

Seems to be running JUST FINE THANKS

now I will check the tank and see if it's got junk in it.

WOULD IT BE GOOD TO FLUSH IT ANYWAY...IS THERE SOMETHING YOU CAN PUT IN IT TOO TO HELP FLUSH IT...oops sorry about the caps.

Well I looked in the tank and the supply fuel rod (don't know what it's called is surrounded by yellow plastic (probably the coating they used for the tank....looks like it has fallen off mostly and it covering the end of the fuel rod so I can't even SEE IT.

so that is probably the root of ALL EVIL.

I will try to get it off and drain the tank and get it all out of there and I think it will solve all the problems..WOW somthing SO SIMPLE.

thanks again everyone

Jer Bear

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:39 pm

Jerry,

Glad to hear things are getting back to rights.

I'm not sure, but IIRC, the lining on the tanks is red, thus the "red death". I have heard of many different items being removed from Pinz tanks: lots of newspapers, etc. Perhaps it's just an old plastic bag someone threw in there? You can likely fish it out from the top.

Nice truck those Aussie boys are driving around. And a pizza oven to boot. What a civilized way to travel through the boonies!

Paul

michaelh712 · Post by **michaelh712** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:42 pm

Jer,
you seem to be fond of lethal weapons, so please, no offense here.
The only problem with the "shotgun approach" in replacing/doing so many things at once is that you lose the important troubleshooting information as to what the ONE major culprit was. Without a valuable mechanic like JIM next door, you may lose valuable information on your personal learning curve to problem solve similar problems in the future. Part of the intrigue (and challenge) of owning such an awesome vehicle is in learing how it works and understanding how to diagnose the ineviatable little things that come up.
It's a ZEN like thing...
good luck and report what you think the problem was.
Michael

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:55 pm

SO the problem was IN THE TANK...there is a yellow coating in the tank...LOOKS YELLOW IN THE FUEL ANYWAY.....it had completely covered the gas tube...I had to pry it off with a piece of copper tubing.....it is loose now but there is more in the tanks - I AM GOING TO DRAIN IT and pull out all of it.

Lethal weapons...hmmm...fond of them..maybe, but I use them to survive......no offence taken....but when you live in the north you EAT MEAT and sometimes you have to DEFEND IT.

hahahahaha

Jer Bear

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:25 pm

OK VIDEO TO SHOW YOU WAHT WE FOUND OK

so the dirty liitle bugger was in the TANK

thanks again and what a learning curve...jerry cans and a long hose and we could have made it home no problem...but it's nice knowing there is new parts in her now

Jer BEar