Carbs freezing up - anyone else have this just for your info

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:01 pm

So this is the convesation we have had over the emails:

PS - THIS IS NOT UP FOR CRITISIM EITHER OK - I haven't posted this so ppl can pick on his observations etc - although I know you guys for the most part repect Dennis's know how on this subject, but it's more for your own learning and I have a question at the end ok

Fair enough:

So I sent my carbs to Dennis and he said they are a mess (well he said this)

Jerry
Carbs a disaster!
I ran them up on a Pinz
Initail observations--Float levels----- too way low!
Rear carb solenoid defunct.

Instruments need soaking in carb cleaner/stripper they are full of gum and junk
I am going to clean them up. and re-do and then test.
Be in touch
D

So I replied:

I thought so – sorry man – I have still been getting oil once in awhile up into the carbs too – I replace the filter lots – is there something else that could be causing that?

He replied:

Oil in the carb inlets
Air filter freezing up with moisture on the outer wire cover---look for another air filter element,.
D

I replied:

I have been using the NAPA 6415 filter:

he replied:

OK

Jerry sounds to me like you need more heat to the air inlet to avoid damp air icing in the air cleaner.

Dennis

I replied:

Well I just got a new hose that goes from the manifold to the air intake just the other day – the old one was in bad shape so I got a new one. Hope that helps – Anything else I can do to make it better?

He replied:

Jerry

Well I guess make sure there is enough heat from the engine to give the pre heater a shot of hot air. Are all the hoses in good shape?
Dennis

I replied that I had replace all the heating hoses:

SO MY QUESTION TO THE GROUP IS?

anyone else have this problem - I have covered up the intake at the fron of the pinz to block most of the air and left the hole in the front open.

The hose that comes off the manifold for the pre-heat is new but it's not insulated.

Any other way to pre heat the air going in there...I drive when it's 25-30 below lots...

Jer

edzz · Post by **edzz** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:57 pm

A couple of different thoughts.

1. I would verify the frozen filter theory before spending too much time worrying about that. He maybe right I’ve never spent any extended driving time in temps below the teens.

2. Unfortunately any heat diverted to the passenger may be robbing heat from the engine intake pre heat. Would need to look into the air flow pattern of the heater.

3. I see some (not a lot of) oil being vented to the carbs where I live, is this not normal for a Pinz? Note that the temperatures have been getting to below 50 degrees on occasion here (bitter cold must throw on a light jacket ).

4. If an excess amount of oil is venting to the intake system it could also be an indication of engine ware.

All this is speculation on my part take it with a grain of salt.

Ed

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:30 pm

Thanks Ed

The hose for the preheat -- comes straight off the manifold and has no reference to the passenger heat at all.

I have checked the filter and you can see through it so it's not clogged.

Anyway - one step at a time I guess.

jer

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:48 pm

Pull the front tin off the engine and see if the intake runners still have the foil covered insulation on them, if not you will need to re insulate them.
Look at the parts book and you will see them.
Cold moist air has always been the bane of air cooled engine carbs.

pcolette · Post by **pcolette** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:49 pm

Jer,

I've heard of the air filter freeze-up problem before and I experienced it once with a dirty filter. We don't get quite as cold around here so it's probably not as common an issue.

I also switched over to this air regulator/pre-heater and it does seem to help with warm up during the winter: http://www.pinzgauer.com/showdetails.ph ... 121195019/

Would blocking off part of the grill help or would this possibly cause other issues with the fan?

Paul C

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:56 pm

Also wouldn't rule out bad rings. Crank case pressure got to go some were.

edzz · Post by **edzz** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:23 pm

Jerbearyukon wrote:Thanks Ed

The hose for the preheat -- comes straight off the manifold and has no reference to the passenger heat at all.

jer

I still suspect that using the heater may reduce the “heating system silencer” (#8 in the picture) heat out put to the intake preheat. When you have the heat control in the heat position and especialy with the cabin fan turned on the system is drawing aditional cold air into the “heating system silencer” reducing the heat output avalible to the hot air intake.

Ed

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:41 pm

Paul how does it work....is it like a little heater? Hard to tell from the parts how it goes together.

Ed I usually only use the Webasto when I am warming up the truck and no heater fan.....that baby can get it real hot in there especially with the tarp rolled down behind the seats....jsut wondering if I should pipe from that heater to the preheat - then there would be some hot air going straight in there.

What do you think?

Jer

pcolette · Post by **pcolette** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:32 pm

Jer,

No, it's not a heater, just a vacuum powered thermostatic valve. It directs the air intake flow to come from whatever warmth there is from the engine so that the carbs are getting somewhat warmer air. I've never seen one that connects to the heat exchanger as is shown in the diagram. Mine connects to the air diverter box that is controlled by the heater lever. You may already have this setup on your Pinz.

Paul

blackstack · Post by **blackstack** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:06 am

anyone else have this problem - I have covered up the intake at the fron of the pinz to block most of the air and left the hole in the front open.

Could you explain what you mean in the above sentence? If you mean blocking the grill off does that cause a fan problem?

pcolette · Post by **pcolette** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:33 am

Could you explain what you mean in the above sentence? If you mean blocking the grill off does that cause a fan problem?

I was wondering if blocking air from entering the grill would cause any airflow problems (ie. turbulence) with the fan since the grill is the only major source of air for it to pull from except for the various seams, etc. If turbulence were to occur it could possibly cause an imbalance in the fan and stress the fins.

I was hoping someone with more airflow knowledge than I would shed some light on this.

Paul

McCall Pinz · Post by **McCall Pinz** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:45 pm

fwiw,
I drive around in the winter with the front blocked off. In addition, I've routed a snorkel which eliminated the preheat device too and haven't had any of the issues you mention. As you know, it gets plenty cold in McCall (4 degrees F this morning), but maybe the air is more humid where you are? I've heard of the intakes and carbs iceing up when driving through tunnels in winter. The change from cold dry air outside to warmer humid air in the tunnel ices the intakes. Some pinzes have insulation on the intakes- mine was missing, so I just ziptied some foam pipe insulation pieces to them. Sounds like more heat is needed to the intake.

Pinzgauer Pete · Post by **Pinzgauer Pete** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:42 am

Jer, what you suggested as far as taking heated cab air and sending some to the intake seems like a viable idea, I am sure the rest of us have not expierienced your problem because of the extreme temps you are running in. I have also seen kits a long time ago that were basically what they called heat stoves and mounted basically on top of the exhaust manifold which was then ducted to the intake, it allowed a quicker normal operating temp and reduced rich idle time allowing the choke to be minimally used. It is a passive system and cheap...stove traps exhaust warmed air...hot air rises...and travels thru duct to intake....I am sure you can either find one or fabricate one. If not then go with the warm cab air...its not like the Pinz is air tight and you will asphixiate from lack of oxagen!

Jerbearyukon · Post by **Jerbearyukon** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:26 pm

Thanks everyone - yes I am thinking that I will run some other kind of ducting to the airbox, but I want to see what happens after I get the carbs back first and now that I have replaced that bad hose it might be alot better.

I am going to insulate it too that should help a bit.

Minus 36 here right now.....saw a magpie trying to kick start a raven this morning....went back few minutes later and they were both gone so it must have worked

cooperation a beautiful thing.

Just like this site

Jer Bear

totaljoint · Post by **totaljoint** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:21 pm

Jer:
Can you run a Webasto heater hose to your carbs until things warm up? If so, you could heat for a few minutes before starting up the engine as well.