trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

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audiocontr
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trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

I've posted quite a bit as i push through some minor issues on my truck and this is yet another post of that sort :D

I'm investigating a lack of power (and popping) which occurs on my tan pinz with stock transmission. I have a green pinz as well which is blessed with the high speed transmission and when comparing the two - the green pinz out performs in both acceleration and top speed. The top speed makes sense, but the acceleration seems like it should be won by the stock transmission. So, Tan Pinz seems to lack power and substantially hesitate while Green Pinz can really move.

My first guess was stock ignition vs civilian. Civilian conversion did not make any change. I have it timed at 9 degrees on the nose. I have bypassed the 4500 RPM module and have 18v at the positive side of the coil.

Next guess was the good ol carbs. I have them perfectly matched albeit they draw a bit more air than they should at 950 rpm (10-11 on the gauge). Idle is fantastic. They do not leak onto the butterflies nor on the outside as best as i can tell. I tried spraying brake cleaner on the carbs and intake manifolds below the cover and saw no change in idle speed.

I checked compression today after adjusting cyl # 1 and 4 exhaust valves (they were too tight) and wound up with 120, 120, 130, 120. Not the best, but not horrible by any means. I checked exhaust manifold temperature and found something rather interesting. In order - 400, 340, 340, 240. Cyl 4 appears to be running much cooler than the others but all spark plugs appear very clean. They have a tiny bit of white ash to them if anything.

Have i eliminated all other possibilities beyond the carbs? Are there other variables to check before concentrating on the carbs? Is it possible that fuel pressure may not be sufficient at acceleration and if so, how would i check? There are no red flakes by the way and i can maintain 55 MPH no problem.

My next step is to swap the carbs between trucks and check for changes. If the problem follows the carb, time for a rebuild. if not, i'm stumped!
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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pcolette
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by pcolette »

The first thing I would try is setting the timing to between 3 and 5 degrees BTDC at 900-1000 rpm and see if that improves the power.
Paul C.
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'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
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audiocontr
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

Interesting. Even with the pertronix?

I'll give it a go
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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edzz
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by edzz »

Also check the timing advance mechanism, make sure it is moving as it should. May want to disassemble, use solvent to remove any old lubricants and relubricate.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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pcolette
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by pcolette »

As I recall it's the Pertronix that requires the change in the timing.

I went by Scott's advice when I had my timing set too high: http://www.expedition-imports.com/categ ... x_install/

It made a difference on mine. Hopefully it will help on yours too.

Ed had some great advice that I had forgotten about. My advance plates were all gunked up with old lubricant and cleaning helped.
Paul C.
_________
'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
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audiocontr
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

Will try both. Thanks gents. Was there a post on cleaning the advance springs?


Edit: we'll now I'm confused. I read that link where Scott said 3-5 but in this post he says 7-10 http://www.real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerB ... nce#p45505

I'll try though and see
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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edzz
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by edzz »

audiocontr wrote: Was there a post on cleaning the advance springs?
Sort of..

http://www.goatwerks.com/distributorgallery.htm
http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/distr ... build.html
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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westernair
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by westernair »

Glen Ring is the premier Bosch distributor rebuilder, he has all the parts to make them better then NOS. I have used Glen for years and have never been anything but impressed with his work.
If you want to get ahold of him he can be reached at glenn@glenn-ring.com
He is out of the NY area
Shawn

62 haffy Bantam
61 haffy 4 door

72 710K - Sold
73 712M - Sold
ccalingaert
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by ccalingaert »

I contacted Glenn Ring when I was looking for an advance spring for my distributor. Unfortunately he only works on the cast iron Bosch distributors and won't have anything to do with the aluminum bodied ones on a pinzgauer.
Chris
'74 710K
undysworld
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by undysworld »

This may be a long shot, and if you've been futzing with the carbs, you've likely already noticed, but...

I found one acc. pump shaft was bent on one of my carbs, and I had some hesitation off idle. I straightened it, and readjusted it, and that helped with the hesitation.
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audiocontr
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

Well, adjusted timing to again and was spot on. Decided it was time to swap carbs and it made a difference. Not 100% but a big difference so a carb rebuild is in order. The carbs that are in it have never been touched since the factory so maybe two rebuilds are in order. I may also try a new coil eventually.

Ran over my air gauge on a quick test run without the dog cover on. It rolled into the engine bay and under the tire :cry:
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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edzz
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by edzz »

are both sets of carbs jeted (sp?) the same?
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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audiocontr
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

Yup, that they are. I'm guessing the accelerator pumps need work and new gaskets. Initial press of the pedal will almost bog it out unless you do it slowly. Could also be the float levels. Regardless the experiment showed me that the carbs are not up to spec and need investigation.

I was VERY surprised how loose the inverted screws were on the base of the carbs (when you turn them over and spill gas on your toes).
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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westernair
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Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by westernair »

long shot but I was dealing with a bit of hesitation from idol as well and before I was going to go through it,reballance and adjust my carbs I ran a bottle of Seafoam through the tank. Not sure what it did but the thing no longer has the hesitation problem.
Shawn

62 haffy Bantam
61 haffy 4 door

72 710K - Sold
73 712M - Sold
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audiocontr
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Location: Buffalo NY

Re: trouble shooting hesitation and lack of power

Post by audiocontr »

Yup, thats coming next. The magic juice should help and since i have a BIG tub of it here, I'll pour it into a soda bottle and dump it on in.

The thing that kinda sucks about seafoam tanks is it runs a bit rough until you work it through
1973 712m
1968 Haflinger
1965 Pathfinder
1978 GMC Palm Beach (Hey, its got 6 wheels!!)
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