starter engagement problems on 710K

[bonefish635]

Hi,

Here's the problem. Starter whirs but won't engage. Pushing the vehicle backwards in gear to move the position on the ring gear makes no difference, so it suggests the starter gear isn't engaging. I'm not great mechanically I should admit at this stage.

I had a look at earlier threads and learned what I could about the flexible mounting. In mine, it doesn't feel like there is any slack- the starter motor end can maybe move an 1/8" under pressure in either direction, so i don't think it's the mount.

If it's the mechanism which propels the gear onto the flywheel edge that's failed, is that an easy fix?

I notice there is a smaller unit piggy backed onto the starter motor. Is that piggy back unit the engagement solenoid? Can I remove it alone?

Help from the wise would be appreciated.

Tony

[Jimm391730]

The one way clutch (the "Bendix") has probably failed; it is there to prevent overspeeding the starter when the engine starts. When it fails, it slips, and won't deliver torque either way, so the starter motor "whirrs" but the engine doesn't crank.

IIRC it is not easy to find just the Bendix to replace (and then you probably should replace the brass bushings, too) so you might want to just do things simply and get Scott's (EI) gear reduction starter, do it once, and be done with it. I removed/replaced my starter about three times before I had it rebuilt right, I would have spent less money and worked less hard had the gear reduction starter been available at that time.

[pcolette]

I'll second the recommendation for Scott's gear reduction starter. It's a nice piece of engineering and really cranks the engine over fast. 5 stars from me!

The Bendix is available from SAV (http://www.pinzgauer.com/showdetails.ph ... 121096250/) but at $208 plus bushings plus labor, it is a pricey repair.

Best of luck!

[bonefish635]

Thanks both. I see the gear reduction starter on the EI website. Maybe a stupid question, but does that include the include the piggy back unit, which I thought was the solenoid? Is it a complete replacement part or would I have to incorporate the old solenoid into it?

Also, the comment in the advert on the EI site suggests some work would be needed with the wiring to get it to work. Did you guys find that?

Tony

[pcolette]

The side unit is the solenoid and is included with Scott's starter. The only changes I had to make on the wiring was to slice open the sheathing on the main harness slightly, about 1 inch, so that the main leads (red) would reach the starter terminal. Also you'll need to splice the black wire that goes to the solenoid to the short lead that comes with the new starter. Both are vary easy mods requiring no special tools.

[edzz]

Your starter is a bosch "0 001 308 100" you may want to dismount it and have a local truck / automotive / marine electric shop inspect it and evaluate the possibility of repair, keeping in mind the price of Scott’s starter (with shipping). Many consider Scott’s starter to be a worthy upgrade however you may be able to have your starter refurbished locally for a reasonable price.

[Roverchef]

Mine was acting up awhile ago and I took it to the local starter/alternator shop and we sat there and found just about every part I needed to rebuild it. From brushes to bushings to solenoids for way cheap. All the stuff was either Bosch or British stuff and it was about $75 with me doing all the labor. The repair manual is helpful! Good luck.

[Twin Pinzies]

+1 for Scott's new generation starter. The original starter only partially engages the flywheel gear (even with a good solenoid). It's also heavier and spins slower.
I had the same problem as you. Problem solved!

[bonefish635]

OK, I decided to take the starter off, since that was a prerequisite to either replacement or repair. Glossing over the huge sparks that reminded me to disconnect the battery, I disconnected the electrics but met my match with the top bolt holding the starter on. Is it really possible to remove the starter with the engine still in place? If it is then there's nothing in my tool box to do it. Should I remove the air filter housing? The oil filter? Any ideas?

The problem is that while the nut is visible and accessible from the front, the body of the starter sits proud by far enough that no socket will seat on the nut. A side attack with a spanner has so little field of movement that I can't even rotate it far enough to set up on the next face of the nut. And my computer keyboard is slick with blood from my knuckles.

Please tell me the secret.

Tony

[pcolette]

Hi Tony,
Yes, remove the air filter housing and the oil filter (for better visibility). Also it's helpful but not absolutely necessary to remove the access panel behind the right front wheel. It's held in place by (4) 6mm bolts. I'm assuming that you're referring to the top bolt towards the engine. A crowsfoot wrench should get you in there and you will only get a small turn each time but it does work. If you do switch to the gear reduction starter, it is much easier to access the bolts.
I took the opportunity to switch to new bolts and changed that tough access one to an allen socket bolt.

IMG_3102.jpg (60.47 KiB) Viewed 5963 times

This is also a great time to check the ground strap from the engine to the starter to confirm it is in good shape.

[Jimm391730]

Get a 19mm "crowfoot" wrench at Sears; it is a 19mm open ended wrench with a 3/8" square hole for a socket extension. This gets the extension off to the side of the nut so it clears the starter, and the extension brings the grip of the ratchet or breaker bar towards the front of the truck where you can get a better grip on it.

While I now own a crowfoot wrench of the proper size, at the time I didn't have one, so I took an old 19mm wrench and bent the end 90 degrees by heating with a torch to create a somewhat similar tool. It isn't as strong (I've started to twist it) hence my search and sucess at finding the crowfoot. But now that the starter is working I've never used the crowfoot yet!

[Jimm391730]

Oops, Paul beat me to the crowsfoot suggestion!

[Jim LaGuardia]

You guys sure like to go the hard way All you need is a 10mm wrench(remove upper dipstick tube bolt), 13mm socket on a short extension , remove oil dipstick lower nut, the 2 nuts on the slave cylinder and pull the damn thing out of the way. Next remove the top 19mm mounting nut, 13mm nut holding batt and charging cables, release solenoid trip wire(flat blade screwdriver), lastly go under and remove final 19mm nut and starter comes out the bottom.
Easy peezy lemon squeezy
Now get to work

[bonefish635]

Starter successfully removed, and gear reduction version ordered from EI.

Thank you to all of you.

All hail mighty LaGuardia.

Tony

[19D20]

The reduction starters are well worth the money, I'm really happy I bought one.
I only have to barely bump my starter button and it fires right up. The petronix seems to be working quite well also.