How to repair the clutch?

[HawaiianGauer]

Aloha folks...yes the new guy has yet another issue I'm requesting help on... As some of you may know, after months of elec ignition & timing/mixture/RPM & valve adjustments (learned a lot), my starter died. Replaced the starter the other day, then my clutch went out during the test drive after fixing the starter. Sometimes these things happen with a 40yr old vehicle...trying to stay positive!

Anyway, purpose of this thread is to solicit guidance & advice in how to get access to the clutch & replace the most likely worn-out parts/pieces. In my case, I intend to start with replacing the pressure plate and disc (hoping that'll do it). I reviewed the tips found here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5615&hilit=clutch Consulted my brother the far-away mechanic & decided to start work today.

Bad news is I have yet to get past step 1 in the repair manual: "remove the gear box". I thought things were actually going quite well (removed all parts, bolts pretty easily) & thought I was ready to yank the gear box out. In fact, after I got the jack in place, removed the last, loosened nut, & returned my attention to the bell housing area I noticed it had already separated on its own (and lots of nice clutch "dust" dumped out onto the grnd). "Freakin awesome...this is going to be easy to separate from the bell housing" - I thought.

Unfortunately, I cannot separate the very top portion of the bell housing. It's stuck; I'm stuck. I believe I have all the applicable nuts off; the clutch fork is disconnected; I have a new reduction gear starter, so no interference there. I even took off the nuts that secure what I think is a "clutch slave cylinder" (above the starter, see picture) and the small black plate mounted behind the cylinder that exposes what I would call a "push-rod" that goes into the slave cylinder thru a rubber sleeve). I am ASSUMING there is nothing to disassemble - that the push-rod simply unseats itself from the slave cylinder as you pull away the gear box from the bell housing.

Yes, I have used a hammer & pry bar. I have tried wiggling the gear box back and forth. I have tried jacking it up & lowering it. I even removed the jack and let the gear box dangle on it's own thinking maybe the weight would pop it free at the top - no joy. That very top part just doesn't want to let go.

Perhaps I just need to get a bigger pry bar but before I really go nuts beating the crap out of it, I wanted to check in with you experts to get your thoughts. Do I, in fact, just need to work harder at wiggling/beating the gear box until it gives way? Or have I missed disconnecting something (slave cylinder/push-rod?)?

Hopefully, the pictures here will help you help me:

[mm58]

Did you remove the cardan shaft? (or at least unfasten the forward end?)

[HawaiianGauer]

Did you remove the cardan shaft? (or at least unfasten the forward end?)

yes...first thing I unbolted actually!

[mm58]

Use a small jack to support the gearbox and keep everything aligned straight.
Did you disconnect the gearshift shaft?

[HawaiianGauer]

Use a small jack to support the gearbox and keep everything aligned straight.
Did you disconnect the gearshift shaft?

Yes - I mistakenly called the gearshift shaft a "clutch fork" in the orig post

Yes - I have a jack supporting the gearbox BUT, as you can hopefully see in the pictures, the gearbox is not currently aligned straight with the bell housing. While trying different things in an attempt to figure out why it's stuck at the top, I noticed as I jacked the gearbox up or down, there would be no change in that gap. I also notice the entire engine/vehicle would go up & down as well - the gearbox itself was not moving. So I placed another jack under the engine thinking that when I would lower the jack under the gearbox, the rest of the vehicle would not move, allowing for the gearbox weight to possibly dislodge itself from the bell housing at the top where there is no separation. When I lowered the gearbox jack, nothing happened - even when I lowered the jack to the point where it was not touching the gearbox - it just hung there. I put the gearbox jack just mm or so below the gearbox & attempted to wiggle the snot out of the gearbox (up/down, left right) - still no separation joy.

[HawaiianGauer]

Just confirmed: 6 bolts connect bell housing to engine - all 6 removed.
"black cover" = clutch housing cover; reveals push-rod, etc. Given exploding parts diagram, it sure looks like that rod should simply slide out from slave cylinder as you pull the bell housing/gearbox away from the engine.

still no idea why this thing is rock-solid stuck...getting ready to use a bigger pry bar unless I'm missing something?

[HawaiianGauer]

and the answer is: use a bigger pry bar... Obviously I was over-concerned for nothing. Once I verified things using exploded parts diagrams, I went at it harder. Gearbox is off, throw out bearing looks great, new parts installed, bell housing cleaned up, spline greased - ready to reinstall the gearbox. Taking a break before starting that wrestling match...

[mm58]

Congrats!

[mopar]

Congrats!!
Once done you'll have that nice accomplished something feeling I remember doing my 712 clutch and it being my first clutch I was mazed how simple it was. Sorry I didn't have any words of wisdom as it was a while ago and I wasn't sure on the details.

[HawaiianGauer]

Clutch job 100% complete
See? I am trainable...

Some tips I wish someone told me that will help the fellow rookies out there knock out this task much quicker than I did (in addition to info/instructions found here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5615&hilit=clutch):

1. BEFORE you start loosening the 6 bolts/nuts that connect the bell housing/gearbox to the engine, place a jack underneath the engine right where that seam is. Reason: after you loosen those nuts/bolts, the engine drops down without a jack to hold it in place creating a gap in the seam at the bottom but pinching the top tight around the top bolt stud (that's why I had such a hard time separating the 2 components and why I needed a bigger pry bar). You may need to adjust that jack as you loosen the bolts/nuts around the bell housing to keep the separation gap equal around the entire housing.

2. As part of the "prep" work, you need to remove the access panel thingie (sorry, don't know the proper name) in the bed of the truck closest to the cab. Can't miss it - it's the triangle kinda panel thing that keeps the entire back bed from being 100% flat and smooth). Once this panel is removed, you can easily remove the small (3" long?) black cover near the top of the bell housing that covers the push rod that goes into the slave cylinder located in the cab near the starter and oil filter. You can also probably disconnect the gearshift shaft easier from that location.

3. When you are ready to separate the bell housing/gearbox from the engine, don't be overly concerned about that unit rolling off your floor jack. It may twist a bit as you dislodge it from the engine but it won't fall to the ground because there are some "things" in the way.

4. Separate the 2 units slowly. You will notice that you can only back it out so far before you start butting up against a couple of things. Here's where you need to start carefully lowering the floor jack, twisting the 50lb or so gearbox unit here and there in order to get it completely out from the vehicle. Tip if you have a regular floor jack like me: I removed the metal round piece that "touches" the frame when you jack something up & replaced it with a 2x6 long enough to support most of the gearbox unit. I was able to bolt the wood to the jack thru the hole where the round metal piece used to be. I also secured the gearbox unit to the wood/jack with a couple of ratchet straps that were NOT super-tight. So, as I twisted the unit to get it below everything that was in the way, the straps were tight enough to help ensure the unit didn't role completely off the jack.

5. After you replace your clutch pieces, clean up the bell housing, etc & you are ready to reinstall - the key is to get the face of the bell housing lined up to the engine meaning there is an equal gap between the 2 units all the way around. Gap should be just big enough to get your hand up inside. I ended up using some shims on that 2-6 to get it where there was equal spacing all around the 2 units. Next, I slowly pulled the jack/gearbox unit with my hand up inside guiding the spindle into the engine hole to get the unit even closer. As you do that, adjust the jack up or down, left or right so the spindle shaft is line up with the middle of the hole. End state is get the spindle shaft as far into the hole as you can WHILE your hand is up there; feel around with your hand to ensure the gap around the tip of the spindle shaft (or whatever the correct name is!) is equal all around. All the while, recheck the outer gap to ensure it stays even all the way around.

6. Final insertion. Make sure trans is IN gear. I ran a ratchet strap around the back of the gearbox to the front of the 'Gauer so my son could slowly ratchet the strap closing the final small gap. Meanwhile, I was at the back of the gearbox twisting the shaft (where the cardan shaft connects) back and forth waiting for the spindles to make contact. As soon as I felt the slightest contact, I made what I thought was the last turn adjustment. While my son did the final ratchet, I gently wiggled the back end back in forth. It took 2 tries but on the 2nd try it popped a little and quickly & easily slid in! The better you do at lining everything up & getting gaps as equal as possible (both outside and inside) the easier it is!

7. We did have to pry the 2 units back apart just a little bit in order to re-insert the push rod into the slave cylinder. Then re-assemble...done.

Hope this helps! X

[Buzz]

Last time I was in that clutch, managed to drop the push rod into the bell housing. I had to pull it apart again to retrieve it and start again. It made me grumpy.

[HawaiianGauer]

Last time I was in that clutch, managed to drop the push rod into the bell housing. I had to pull it apart again to retrieve it and start again. It made me grumpy.

yea that push rod is a pain...dropped it too but luckily could pull it out without taking it apart again! Man that musta sucked big-time! Hold onto that push rod people!!!!!