New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Diffs, axles, lockers, transmissions, portals, that kind of thing.
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Hi all,

So here it is. I was doing some highway driving, at times around 108 - 110 km/h on the GPS, no problems. On my way home the second day, I started to hear and feel a new vibration up through the gas pedal and throughout the tub in all gears when moving at higher RPM's. I got home and noted a lot of 'spatter' on the passenger side of the truck, all the way from the fuel filler area to the back roll bar. Got under the truck and the tranny output shaft was soaked, but not leaking. I wasn't able to establish significant play in the output shaft, but judging from what would appear to be a deviated output shaft seal, plus the new vibration, I'm guessing I pooched the bearing in there. Any other thoughts?

thanks in advance, Dave
1972 710m
User avatar
Jimm391730
United States of America
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Idyllwild, CA

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by Jimm391730 »

I'd think that the U joints on the shaft are more likely to fail than the output bearing; as they fail, they induce vibration as the shaft moves away from the centered, balanced position. If so, could the vibration may have allowed oil to get past the rear seal of the tranny? Maybe, maybe not. But carefully check the shaft U joints too before you decide the tranny is the culprit.
Jim M.
712W and 710M
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Thanks Jim, I will get a closer inspection tonight hopefully. Definitely not wanting to tear into the transmission if I can get away with it!
1972 710m
63rover
Canada
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Mt. Hope, Ont., Canada

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by 63rover »

I was just reading about Lucas Hub Oil for heavy trucks. It is a heavy weight oil which also stops seal leakage. It may do the trick and be an easier fix than wrenching. If you check the oil level through the filler you can get an idea of how much has been lost. You may get away with using the Lucas as a top up. If the oil smells burnt definitely drain it and look for bits in the oil that could indicate internal damage before proceeding.

It is definitely worth checking the UJs too and greasing them while at it.

I would offer to drive down but I am flying out for a week tomorrow morning. If you are still at it next weekend I'll be back and can drop in to help. Good luck.

Cheers, Clive

PS There are quite a few members of the Land Rover Adventure Association of Ontario (out of Toronto) who also have military vehicles. There is a trail ride in the planning stages. Also there is a group doing the Swisha Loop in Quebec in mid-Sept. if you are interested. The club meets on the last Tuesday of each month and has an event or two each month. Non-LRs are welcome.
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Hi Clive,

Thanks so much for the kind offer. I will be in touch if things get out of hand over here!

Once I have the Pinz dialed back in (have a few other things to do once this is fixed), I'd love to join up with your group.

thanks Dave
1972 710m
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Happy Sunday all!

Just a bit of progress here, pulled the drive shaft off of the tranny output. Very, very minimal play in the U joint, however all of the nuts had backed off the bolts a tiny bit. There is a bit of play in the tranny output which I believe there should be zero, correct?

Thanks in advance !
Dave
1972 710m
undysworld
Norway
Posts: 1776
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by undysworld »

What's the fluid level of the transmission, and what's it look like? My transmission once got a hole punched in the case, drained nearly empty, and drove about 15 mi. before it began to vibrate to death. :evil:

If it's currently low but not showing signs otherwise of needing exchange, I think if it was mine I'd make sure the transmission is full, tighten down those nuts, and go for a ride. You haven't mentioned an internal driveshaft vibration, and the spattered fluid suggests a problem there, but you could have two problems. The check is simple: Drive a straight road at 50mph-ish and observe vibration, engage front axle (leftmost locker lever) and observe vibration, disengage locker. If the vibration disappeared, I'd suspect the internal driveshaft.

If it's low but looks crappy, drain it and see what comes out.

If it's somehow still full...?

I also saw one driveshaft that, while the bearings felt tight, only allowed a few degrees of flex. The truck doesn't flex the u-joints much, and they had semi-siezed. At some point, they started binding.
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

undysworld wrote:What's the fluid level of the transmission, and what's it look like? My transmission once got a hole punched in the case, drained nearly empty, and drove about 15 mi. before it began to vibrate to death. :evil:

If it's currently low but not showing signs otherwise of needing exchange, I think if it was mine I'd make sure the transmission is full, tighten down those nuts, and go for a ride. You haven't mentioned an internal driveshaft vibration, and the spattered fluid suggests a problem there, but you could have two problems. The check is simple: Drive a straight road at 50mph-ish and observe vibration, engage front axle (leftmost locker lever) and observe vibration, disengage locker. If the vibration disappeared, I'd suspect the internal driveshaft.

If it's low but looks crappy, drain it and see what comes out.

If it's somehow still full...?

I also saw one driveshaft that, while the bearings felt tight, only allowed a few degrees of flex. The truck doesn't flex the u-joints much, and they had semi-siezed. At some point, they started binding.
1972 710m
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Not sure what happened to my last reply, but thanks for the ideas and thoughts. I will drain the fluid this week and have a look. I'm still very concerned about the play in the transmission output.
1972 710m
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Thanks to everyone for their input. Looks like it was the u joint off the transmission. After removing it I found a slight bind in the side to side movement. Tightened those loose bolts real good on re installation and the spray of tranny fluid ceased at least. As was pointed out by Jim, the bad joint was throwing off the balance and allowing fluid past the seal.
Time to order me a new u joint! :D
1972 710m
User avatar
Jimm391730
United States of America
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Idyllwild, CA

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by Jimm391730 »

Be sure to get the two halves of the shaft aligned correctly if they come apart; the U joint yokes on the "inside" (closest to the expansion splines) should be in the same plane when the splines are put back together. If not, you'll get vibration. If you trust it is correct, and you haven't separated them, mark them first so they go back together the same way. If you already separated them (or they do not have the inner yokes in the same plane) then just ensure that they are in the same plane when putting them back together.
Jim M.
712W and 710M
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Jimm391730 wrote:Be sure to get the two halves of the shaft aligned correctly if they come apart; the U joint yokes on the "inside" (closest to the expansion splines) should be in the same plane when the splines are put back together. If not, you'll get vibration. If you trust it is correct, and you haven't separated them, mark them first so they go back together the same way. If you already separated them (or they do not have the inner yokes in the same plane) then just ensure that they are in the same plane when putting them back together.
Thanks Jim, and very timely advice. I'm taking the shaft out this afternoon and did not know this. I will mark them accordingly! Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. That saved me a lot of unnecessary stress. :D
1972 710m
User avatar
Jimm391730
United States of America
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Idyllwild, CA

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by Jimm391730 »

That saved me a lot of unnecessary stress. :D
That is the whole idea! I've learned a lot from this group, it feels good to reciprocate. :D
Jim M.
712W and 710M
stiffler4444
Canada
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by stiffler4444 »

Jimm391730 wrote:
That saved me a lot of unnecessary stress. :D
That is the whole idea! I've learned a lot from this group, it feels good to reciprocate. :D
Absolutely, I agree. This site is a life saver and a great group of individuals. Hard to find on any forum nowadays!
1972 710m
User avatar
TechMOGogy
Canada
Posts: 2831
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:39 am
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: New vibrations...and tranny fluid problem..thoughts?

Post by TechMOGogy »

This forum is great
No question is too simple and it seems non too difficult either!
I also find the layout, organization and archive outstanding
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 96 350GDT Worker
Post Reply