#1 Is it o.k. to lock the rear diff. without putting it in 4wd?
#2 is it o.k. to unlock the 4wd if the front diff is still engaged ?
#3 first the fwd then the rear diff then the front diff and reverse all on the way out . Is this the only safe way to operate the levers? thanks.
using the lockers ?
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norcal pinz
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using the lockers ?
710M 1972
710k 1974
710k 1974
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David Dunn
- Posts: 2274
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
Read my post in the TD section regarding how the system works, and disconnects. But basically, the front locker is always the first to be disengaged.
Rear lockers can be used alone ( in certain conditions requiring across the axle traction)
Rear lockers can be used alone ( in certain conditions requiring across the axle traction)
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The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
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undysworld
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- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Dave and Norcal,
I just so happened to briefly scan that post. I recall that to have a lot about the voltages, or lack, needed to lock things, and the interlocks between them. But this thread leads me to some questions. I may well have to go back and reread it.
From my experience with the truck, both behind the wheel and under the chassis, these lockers are not interdependent. Any locker could be engaged or disengaged without effecting another. ?? It sounded like the 716/8 have electrical safetys.??
But there are practical reasons for locking, or unlocking, in order. By way of explanation, I'll refer to Norcal's questions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
#1 It's OK to do so, just unlikely to be the best option. It will improve traction at the rear axle, but perhaps by less than engaging the 1st locker (4wd, by US standards kinda). But it will make cornering difficult and will make the rear end prone to sliding sideways (bad), by overriding the rear axle differential.
#2 Again, it's theoretically OK to do, but I doubt that anybody would ever choose to. With the 1st locker (4wd) unlocked, the front axle would not be driven. However, with the front differential locked side-to-side, steering would be virtually impossible onroad, needlessly difficult offroad. No reason to do this.
#3 I've read (and think it makes sense) that in extreme downhill conditions, to unlock only the rear differential. That way, in addition to your brakes, the engine will help to hold back at least 3 tires. The reason for keeping the rear locker unlocked was to keep the rear end from sliding sideways and coming around, because one rear tire would always be rolling.
So to me, that's probably the exception. Otherwise, I generally engage left to right and disengage right to left.
I just so happened to briefly scan that post. I recall that to have a lot about the voltages, or lack, needed to lock things, and the interlocks between them. But this thread leads me to some questions. I may well have to go back and reread it.
From my experience with the truck, both behind the wheel and under the chassis, these lockers are not interdependent. Any locker could be engaged or disengaged without effecting another. ?? It sounded like the 716/8 have electrical safetys.??
But there are practical reasons for locking, or unlocking, in order. By way of explanation, I'll refer to Norcal's questions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
#1 It's OK to do so, just unlikely to be the best option. It will improve traction at the rear axle, but perhaps by less than engaging the 1st locker (4wd, by US standards kinda). But it will make cornering difficult and will make the rear end prone to sliding sideways (bad), by overriding the rear axle differential.
#2 Again, it's theoretically OK to do, but I doubt that anybody would ever choose to. With the 1st locker (4wd) unlocked, the front axle would not be driven. However, with the front differential locked side-to-side, steering would be virtually impossible onroad, needlessly difficult offroad. No reason to do this.
#3 I've read (and think it makes sense) that in extreme downhill conditions, to unlock only the rear differential. That way, in addition to your brakes, the engine will help to hold back at least 3 tires. The reason for keeping the rear locker unlocked was to keep the rear end from sliding sideways and coming around, because one rear tire would always be rolling.
So to me, that's probably the exception. Otherwise, I generally engage left to right and disengage right to left.
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David Dunn
- Posts: 2274
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
Paul,
the TD post is to show the useage of the system., as it is designed to operate. The 710/12 system is completely up to the whim of the driver. And from all the years of reading posts of people just flipping levers and some cases pumping levers, proves the problems engineers have had to solve with the nut behind the steering wheel.
With the 716/18, many of those problems were solve with the use of electro/pneumatic switches and actuators.....
To answers the questions
#1 Rear lockers are good for pulling, and where one side of a vehicle in in a "no traction" situation (aka.. off the road on one side)
(4x4 is no good in this,as one wheel from both will spin).
#2 There is never a good reason to have the front axle lock without it being driven. As soon as you turn the wheels, you will be putting the axles, gears and tires into a bind, and the weakest link will break, that is why lockers are only use in soft materials ( to unwind the bind by slipping the tires)
#3 I have never heard of a "acknowledged" use of 4x4 and front locker only. The use of brakes attribute to most time of the rear end coming around on a downhill. If engine braking is not enough, the technic of "jab and release" is the best way of slowing.... any type of sustain braking will be the primary reason of lost traction
the TD post is to show the useage of the system., as it is designed to operate. The 710/12 system is completely up to the whim of the driver. And from all the years of reading posts of people just flipping levers and some cases pumping levers, proves the problems engineers have had to solve with the nut behind the steering wheel.
With the 716/18, many of those problems were solve with the use of electro/pneumatic switches and actuators.....
To answers the questions
#1 Rear lockers are good for pulling, and where one side of a vehicle in in a "no traction" situation (aka.. off the road on one side)
(4x4 is no good in this,as one wheel from both will spin).
#2 There is never a good reason to have the front axle lock without it being driven. As soon as you turn the wheels, you will be putting the axles, gears and tires into a bind, and the weakest link will break, that is why lockers are only use in soft materials ( to unwind the bind by slipping the tires)
#3 I have never heard of a "acknowledged" use of 4x4 and front locker only. The use of brakes attribute to most time of the rear end coming around on a downhill. If engine braking is not enough, the technic of "jab and release" is the best way of slowing.... any type of sustain braking will be the primary reason of lost traction
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
#1 as Dave has said good for pulling trailers or any application where a possy lock 2 wd truck would be needed.
#2 yes it is OK but useless and only in an offroad situation which is where you would be if you had the fronts locked anyway.
#3 This is the basic way I teach people to drive their trucks. There are many circumstances where different locker configurations work better than others. Example is soft sand 4wd and front lockers perform better than fully locked.
Over all the order of lock and unlock really does not matter. Conditions dictate operation far more than order of operation.
#2 yes it is OK but useless and only in an offroad situation which is where you would be if you had the fronts locked anyway.
#3 This is the basic way I teach people to drive their trucks. There are many circumstances where different locker configurations work better than others. Example is soft sand 4wd and front lockers perform better than fully locked.
Over all the order of lock and unlock really does not matter. Conditions dictate operation far more than order of operation.