Jump Starting the Pinz with 12V

[totaljoint]

I searched forums for "jump start" without finding the answer.
Someone once told me that to jump 24VPinz with a 12V car, I can hook the 12v cables up to the front battery in the Pinz. Do I have that right? Since my voltmeter reads 24 prior to pushing the start button (and 20 during), will a 12 volt jump enhance my voltage or CCA's? Do I need two cars to jump (one for each battery)?
Or am I better taking out the batteries and charging them one at a time?
Before I spend $400+ for two new batteries, I want to see if in fact that batteries are the problem.
Thanks,
Ed

[edzz]

Before I got my 24 volt charger I would charge each battery individually. Open battery box, disconnect the cable between the two batteries and charge them individually use two chargers if you have them (one for each battery).
Deltran makes a good 24 volt charger that also functions as a maintenance / float charger. Remember to check water level if applicable.

Ed

[totaljoint]

Thanks, Ed!
And I was looking for a good 24v charger too!
Ed
PS: all cells full of water, fuel pump squirting. Has to be batteries, or I screwed up the carbs with the SeaFoam, might be time to save up for fuel injection.

[ccalingaert]

Odd timing since I had a similar problem over the weekend. I hadn't driven my Pinz in a month and the batteries were a bit low and it wouldn't start. I hooked up jumper cables to one of the batteries and it was enough to get it going. After I drove around a while, I trickle charged each of the batteries individually so they were both equally charged. I bought it with a mismatched set of batteries that will eventually need replacing, but would like them to last a little while longer.

[undysworld]

Ed,

Do you own a voltmeter? If so, fully charge both batteries and check voltage. That may show that you have one bad battery.

From my experience, they don't normally both go bad at one time. Twice I've had one bad battery, while the other still seemed ok.

You can jump just one battery at a time, and if you've got just one dead battery (and you're jumping that battery) this will likely start the truck.

But if both batteries are down, you can, and will need to, jump both batteries. You'll need two separate 12v supplies (jump vehicles) to do this.

Be sure you use both batteries respective ground anodes, not the chassis vehicle, to jump the batteries. For that matter, use the battery ground (instead of chassis ground) even if you're only jumping one battery, to avoid the possibility of problems. (only one battery has a common ground with the vehicle chassis, the other one has a 12v disparity with chassis ground)

FWIW, I try to charge both batteries periodically, to avoid any difference in their charges. This seems to help with battery life, by avoiding over- and under-charging one battery or the other.

[audiocontr]

I rotate the order of my batteries periodically, and yes, when the battery is dead on the pinz, try jumping one battery, if it wont start, do the other. it will start immediately

[Kaweeka]

Adds detail and is from a solid source (i.e, not me . . .):

To define the 2 batteries. First you have the "upper" battery that has the Pinz positive (+) cable to it. The "lower" battery has it's positive connected to the negative (-) side of the upper battery and it's negative side connected to the Pinz negative cable (-).

TURN OFF the battery disconnect on the Pinz and connect the jumper cables to the upper battery ( + to + , and - to -) of the charging vehicle or charger).The interconnect cable between batteries on the Pinz does not need to be disconnected. The reason you turn off the disconnect is that if you touch either jumper cable to the body of the Pinz, you could either have the polarity reverse to the charging unit and blow up a battery, or two, or run 24v back the charging vehicle and blow out all it's electronics...... depending on which cable came in contact.

If you are jumping from another vehicle, let the vehicle run at a high idle ( 1500rpm or so) for 5 minute +/-. Then disconnect the jumper cables from the upper battery and move them to the "lower" battery and repeat. While you are connected to the lower battery, you can turn on the disconnect switch and start the vehicle. The idea is you pump some power into the upper battery, and then the Pinz will start while charging the lower battery.

MORE SAFETY PROCEDURES:

Not just for 24v vehicles , but for all types.
First connect one end of the jumper cable to the vehicle to be charged positive (+) battery post first. Then connect the other end to the charging vehicle's positive battery post.
Then connect the other jumper cable to the appropriate negative battery post, and last connection to the charging vehicle's battery negative post ( or a good ground on the body or engine). This is assuming a negative ground vehicle ( LRs were last positive ground around '59 to '60 ,and were among the last to change ).

Now to explain why we do it this way.:
With the first cable going from one vehicle to the other, no circuit is completed and no chance of shorting anything by the clamp accidentally contacting the body of the opposite vehicle. Whereas if the grounds (-) were done first, any contact of the positive (+) with any part of either vehicle could damage something, or blow a battery up (literally!)

[David Dunn]

Thanks for finding it. I remember that post.... I was trying to find that last night....
This goes to show how important a subject title is, and not making it so cryptic.

And as a "solid" source.... does that mean I'm hard headed, or thick as a brick ?

[totaljoint]

Thanks Kaweeka and David:
I think I'll print out that info and keep it in in my driver's manual.
Info like that should not be lost in the forums, and with the new owner's joining every year, these pearls deserve a readily accesable place.
Ed

[blackstack]

Thanks for the advice !! What about giving a 12 volter a jump? I assume you would do it with the battery switch off using just the top battery and not running your engine. Is that right?

[spandit]

I have made a PDF with jump starting instructions (taken from a previous post on here).

Uploaded here:

http://creffield.110mb.com/pinzgauer/Ju ... arting.pdf

[totaljoint]

Just to update:
At 45 degrees on a (semi)dry day, she started right up like there was no problem. True, I sang "Du Du Liegst Mir Im Hertzen " to her while pressing the starting button this time.
Both batteries 12.4volts by multitester.
I now see that these batteries have on the sticker: 700CCA at 0 degrees and 850CCA at 32. Good for summers but not enough for winters?? In shopping for batteries, I find CCA ratings from 700 to over 1000.

How many CCA's does a Pinz need to start up at freezing temps?

[Jimm391730]

Those battery spec numbers should be just fine for the PInz; I haven't actually measured the cranking current but I would be surprised if it was over 250A.

I suspect that you have one or both batteries that is not performing as expected -- use a meter to measure the voltage of each battery DURING cranking. A good battery should be well over 9 volts during several seconds of cranking. Any voltage lower than this is a sign of a bad battery. Check each battery seperately with the voltmeter; do not measure the voltage of both in series (although good batteries will crank at 20+ volts together).

Best of luck,

Jim M.

[edzz]

Those battery spec numbers should be just fine for the PInz; I haven't actually measured the cranking current but I would be surprised if it was over 250A.

good estimate

From the manual, when on test stand.

No load 23.4v 42a 6000 rpm
Under load 21.0v 210a 1180 rpm
Short circuit 18.6v 360a 0 rpm


Ed

[spandit]

It's not that big an engine - shouldn't need massive batteries. If it were a 12litre diesel or something then you'd need a bit of grunt.