KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Issues with shocks/springs, tires, stopping, etc.
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Haf-e
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KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:57 pm

The disc brake conversion kits have been shipping and four additional trucks are currently in process. Andre at Fat Fabrications is doing three of them and has seen the system first hand and tested its performance personally. We will post photos of the trucks as they are completed.

The website for KLUGEWERKS ("klu-ga-verks" - which means "clever workshop" in German BTW) has been updated with the latest information - http://www.klugewerks.com

I was able to test fit and test drive the disc brake system with a set of Ford Transit wheels - they work very well. Due to their slightly lower backspacing and slightly greater 6.5 inch width (compared to the 6 inch width of the Sprinter wheels), the wheels are moved outward just under 2 inches (50mm) on each side (compared to 29mm or about 1-3/16" for the Sprinter wheels). This results in the wheel's extending 3/4" past the wood rub rails on the sides (with the Sprinter wheels the edge of the tire is even with the wood rub rails). The steering effort and handling both on road and off-road was found to be very acceptable with the Ford Transit wheels.
Pinz side transit sprinter  wheel.jpg
Pinz side transit sprinter wheel.jpg (666.01 KiB) Viewed 942 times
The pricing on the basic kit has been changed to include the wheel spacers which are required and is now priced "per axle" instead of "per wheel" to make it easier to order. The pricing on the complete kits is still TBD depending on a number of options and the condition of the existing brake system.
Front Discs - small.jpg
Front Discs - small.jpg (467.89 KiB) Viewed 942 times
Please feel free to contact me with any questions.

Cheers,

Haf-e / Christopher
Last edited by Haf-e on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

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Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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VinceAtReal4x4s
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:01 am

Love it, and the look of the wheels!

Did you guys test hard or emergency braking any? I was wondering about brake proportioning, front to rear. The Gwagens have a proportioning valve and actuator arm on the rear axle that lessons the rear's braking percentage as the little arm changes its angle the more the rear suspension increases distance to the body.

I'm sure anything is far better than those drums.
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by TechMOGogy » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:42 am

Kits comes with a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve so you can fine tune it F to R
Really well designed and complete solution
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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Haf-e
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:03 am

So which wheels do you like the look of better?

Hard for me to say with the different colors - I originally thought the sprinter wheels were the best looking (especially with the PUCH center caps) but the transit wheels look great too - the wider bolt pattern looks right on the air cooled pinz to me...
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

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Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:28 pm

That raises the question of how to adjust it? I'd think that loading the Pinz down like you'd most likely have it equipped, would be really important when setting it up. A loaded down bed or trailer tongue with some decent hitch weight would cause the need for very different proportioning than an unloaded rig with only a driver.

I like the front wheels more in the pic. The rears almost look fragile with the amount of holes it has. I know they aren't but it just feels that way at a glance.
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:36 pm

Yes - the look of the Transit wheels has grown on me - especially when they are painted green to match the truck. Here is a picture of one like that:
Pinz Transit Wheels Brady.jpg
Pinz Transit Wheels Brady.jpg (307.49 KiB) Viewed 864 times
Yes - the manual proportioning valve does require adjustment when loads vary - its not a perfect solution but it does allow dialing in the amount for different vehicles - for my Pinz which has been mostly lightly loaded I've kept it on the minimum value and the rear end barely locks up on gravel - and only when the front wheels are also locked up. Before I installed the proportioning valve there was way to much rear braking going on... of course when 4WD is engaged then the rear and front axles all rotate together so it's not as much of an issue off-road.

Since the front brakes have dual calipers - and the rear have single calipers (all the same piston size) - the braking is biased towards the front axle by a 2:1 ratio inherently - this is the same approach Steyr-Puch used on the 716 and 718 Pinzgauers.

I did consider the automatic "inertial" proportioning valve used on the late 70s VW bus and Vanagon - it uses a steel ball which rolls up an inclined barrel - so it responds to the vehicle's position (going up hill / going downhill / braking hard front end dive) but they are hard to find quality reproductions (at least that is what I hear from VW guys) and they are much more expensive than the manual valve - about $300 or so... It's almost is a type of rudimentary anti-lock braking system for the rear axle. The british Mini's and Moke's had a similar system but it cut out all braking of the rear axle when the nose dives down - the VW one simple goes from full braking to partial braking of the rear axle.

My Sprinter has the same load / nose dive sensing valve connected to the rear axle - that same system was also added to the 710 Pinzgauers that were rebuilt and upgraded by the Austrian military - they did not add them to the 712 Pinzgauers... I would still recommend a manual proportioning valve as a minimum though on a 712.

In many ways - the same issue exists for the drum brakes - the front / rear braking bias is fixed at a compromise level which is appropriate only for some operating condition - probably with the vehicle lightly loaded... with the manual adjustment you at least can increase the rear braking effect for times when you are heavily loaded and need all the extra braking ability possible.
Last edited by Haf-e on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

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Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:39 am

VinceAtReal4x4s wrote: I like the front <Transit> wheels more in the pic. The rears <Sprinter> almost look fragile with the amount of holes it has. I know they aren't but it just feels that way at a glance.
Here is a picture of the Sprinter wheels from an angle - they look better that way then when viewed straight on IMHO.
Pinz with Sprinter wheels.jpg
Pinz with Sprinter wheels.jpg (204.19 KiB) Viewed 808 times
The gross rear axle weight (GAWR) rating on the Sprinter with these single wheels is over 4000 lbs - so they should handle the weight of a 710 or 712 without issue. The Transit wheels are heavier - 32 lbs - vs 30 lbs for the Sprinter wheels.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

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Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by VinceAtReal4x4s » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:55 pm

I don't know... the transit in alloy powder-coat might beat them out, for me.
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Brady 712k » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:31 pm

Here are my disc brake brackets after I had them yellow zinc coated and a shot of the disc and spacer with studs!
Can't wait to get started on the install!!!!
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20180214_054252-1612x1209.jpg
20180214_054252-1612x1209.jpg (485.97 KiB) Viewed 731 times
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20180212_171551-1612x1209.jpg (464.66 KiB) Viewed 731 times

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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Brady 712k » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 pm

That's my pinz with the transit wheels on them and the beer cans lined up on it...
This was last summer with the drum brakes still on it.
The rims came in black.... I just found some rattle can paint which was a close flat green match....
As they get love marks... I just touch up spray them!

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TechMOGogy
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by TechMOGogy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Yellow zinc looks great!
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:38 pm

The website was just updated with all of the kit pricing - here is a summary:

FULL KIT - includes all parts required for a complete conversion of a 710 or 712 Pinzgauer - you provide brake fluid and your choice of wheels & lug nuts
(3-day USPS shipping in the USA included)

710/712 front axle only for Transit wheels - $2000 USD
710/712 front axle only for Sprinter wheels - $2050 USD

710 two axle for Transit 5x160mm wheels - $3200 USD
710 two axle for Sprinter 5x130mm wheels - $3300 USD

712 three axle for Transit 5x160mm wheels- $4400 USD
712 three axle for Sprinter 5x130mm wheels- $4550 USD

BASIC KIT - includes just the custom parts - 2 discs/rotors, 2 wheel spacers, brackets and all required mounting hardware - fits one front or rear axle - you supply the calipers, pads, plumbing parts and wheels etc.
(3-day USPS shipping in the USA included)

Per axle for Transit wheel 5x160mm - $800 USD
Per axle for Sprinter wheel 5x130mm - $850 USD

Includes detailed assembly instructions with sources for all additional parts - calipers, pads, brake lines, plumbing adapters etc.

WHEEL SPACERS for rear drum brakes if not converted - moves rear wheels outward to match front wheels

Transit wheel spacer 5x160mm (each) - $85 USD
Sprinter wheel spacer 5x130mm (each) - $110 USD

More information - http://www.klugewerks.com
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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Haf-e
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:10 pm

Got the first production batch of vented rotors for the disc brake conversion kits
Vented Disc Brake 22MAR2018.jpg
Vented Disc Brake 22MAR2018.jpg (1.47 MiB) Viewed 471 times
The thickness increases to 0.640" / 16.2 mm which is 25% thicker - but the weight of the vented disc decreases by about 15%. Original solid discs are 0.510 / 13mm thick.

The existing calipers and brackets work with either by removing the 0.125" thick pad spacer which is used only with the solid discs.

I am offering to exchange the front axle solid discs for the vented ones to all of the kit purchasers at no cost.

Any thoughts/preferences on vented versus solid rotors? I would like to not have to have to stock two different discs going forward...

The TD Pinzgauers used solid discs through their entire production - and the TDs are heavier & faster. Nearly all cars and trucks now use vented discs now though.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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TechMOGogy
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by TechMOGogy » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:23 pm

I look forward to these updates as it’s very exciting news each time!
You know my thoughts on the solid vs vented
Vented fronts on my TD G and the only negatives I have ever seen are people saying the vents could clog up with mud but I don’t see that being a real issue.

The offer to exchange rotors for all existing kits out there is simply OUTSTANDING!
Cheers,
Dan
72 Pathfinder | 75 710M 2.7i | 94 350GDT | 96 350GDT Worker

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Haf-e
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Re: KLUGEWERKS Disc Brake Conversion Kit Updates

Post by Haf-e » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:00 pm

I suppose the vents could get plugged - but I don't think its very likely. Also - these are the straight type vents (as opposed to the curved versions) which would make cleaning them out easier I would think.

The same disc is used on all wheel positions BTW.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com

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