CV AXLE

Build projects, things that guys have come up with to make a Pinz better (or worse?) and aftermarket add-ons.
User avatar
MACH
Mexico
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi

CV AXLE

Post by MACH »

New to the forum.

Bought a 1973 PINZGAUER 710M in Colorado and imported it into Mexico.

I have made some modifications that I plan to show off: one at a time.

DOUBLE CARDAN SHAFT.( U axle )

We all know: Pinzgauer are noisy. My guess: Some of it is caused by the Cardan shaft being that short and the driving and driven flanges not being aligned, you end up with a jerky rotation that translates into gear noise.

I switched the Cardan axle for a VW constant velocity axle. -I am not claiming that I am the first one to do it-.


2- type 2 (100mm) CV joints VW Bus sets (VW Thing´s cv joints might be better, German made is always better). You will need longer bolts, washers and safety nuts.



2- ½ inches spacers – donut like shape, to make up for shaft length-

1-VW Thing axle

It is an easy modification.( machine shop needed)

CV joints and flanges almost fit, you have to open up a notch the holes in the flanges, fabricate the spacers and grind out the shoulders in the axle, so you can fit the CV joints on the axle´s splines and fit the snap rings (with the right axle and cv joints combination, you can skip this step)



Keep the U axle in the truck (just in case)

According to The Samba Forum: it will handle the power, if not? I´ll rather break an axle than the gearbox.

So far: the noise level is lower, nicer sound - less jerky- and feels lighter on acceleration.



Some links

http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CV ... ts_101.htm

http://www.thethingshop.com/C_V-AXLE-SE ... 1CV%2DSET/

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/CV-Joint-K ... -101ec.htm

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=552667


THANKS
Attachments
JP CV AXLE.jpg
JP CV AXLE.jpg (145.09 KiB) Viewed 8355 times
mopar
United States of America
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:15 pm
Location: Metrowest MA

Re: CV AXLE

Post by mopar »

Interesting

1974 712M AKA the Banana
1974 710M AKA the project truck
1987 718M Now Sold
1975 Volvo TGB1111 Now Sold
1973 Pinzgauer 712M x2 Now Sold
1963 404S Now Sold
pinzgauerpete
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 11, 2015 4:10 pm

Re: CV AXLE

Post by pinzgauerpete »

I would have liked to see pics of the spacers you made and what machining you did to the ends of the axle.
User avatar
MACH
Mexico
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi

Re: CV AXLE

Post by MACH »

I did not take any photos before assembling the axle.
I built it with parts locally available, the axle is used and is not a perfect match to the vw bus cv joint, I just grinded off the small shoulders next to the splines to the axle´s diameter – the cv joint did not fit between the snap ring and the shoulder - , if you buy the cv axle set – see link – you don´t need to modify the axle.

http://www.thethingshop.com/C_V-AXLE-SE ... 1CV%2DSET/


As for the spacer they look like this photo, I did not add the grease port but I think is a great idea.
If you try this modification, please ,let me know.
Attachments
jp vw thing axle.jpg
jp vw thing axle.jpg (10.78 KiB) Viewed 8301 times
JP SPACER 2.jpg
JP SPACER 2.jpg (34.33 KiB) Viewed 8301 times
User avatar
Jimm391730
United States of America
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Idyllwild, CA

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Jimm391730 »

Hmm, I'm wondering if f an axle (that is not expected to operate at over 1,000 rpm) will last in this application that can easily spin at over 4,000 rpm? It will certainly be strong enough but I wonder how well it will stay lubricated at the higher rpms. You will need to keep us informed as time goes on.
Jim M.
712W and 710M
undysworld
Norway
Posts: 1776
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
Location: Blue Mounds, WI

Re: CV AXLE

Post by undysworld »

Great idea Mach, and welcome to the forum.

It's always cool to see someone re-invent an old machine, especially if it makes an improvement. Wikipedia states that CV joints are increasingly being used as prop shafts. I agree, please let us know how it works out!

Maybe you'll start producing and marketing those adaptors? Heck, assemble and sell the whole shebang.

BTW, where are you?
User avatar
MACH
Mexico
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi

Re: CV AXLE

Post by MACH »

Time will tell, how well it takes 4000 rpm

Here is an aftermarket Mustang prop shaft that use a CV JOINT.

http://www.driveshaftshop.com/domestic- ... nce-issues


I am located in the city of San Luis Potosi. Mexico.
Attachments
jp slp.jpg
jp slp.jpg (113.35 KiB) Viewed 8254 times
jp mustang.jpg
jp mustang.jpg (33.08 KiB) Viewed 8254 times
User avatar
Garrycol
Australia
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:49 am
Location: Canberra Australia

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Garrycol »

I am not sure where the rev issue with CVs comes from - I have had a Landrover Freelander and currently a Range Rover Sport and both have CV tailshafts so revs in theory get up to 5000rpm at high speeds and have no issues.

So with the correct CV grease I cannot see an issue.

Garry
1973 Haflinger AP700
1977 Landrover FC 101
2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
1971 Jaguar Series 3 E-Type Conv
1957 Landrover 88" Station Wagon
1957 Landrover 88"
User avatar
Dr-Nuts
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:57 am
Location: Wakefield MA.

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Dr-Nuts »

"So with the correct CV grease I cannot see an issue."

I concur that with the proper adhesion/cohesion grease the 4K rpm should not be a problem Well done on the modification.

Mark
A delusional mind is what you make of it...
kdiqq
United States of America
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: CV AXLE

Post by kdiqq »

Yeah I think your largest concern will be torque after all the reduction in lo-range, but even still I don't think it will be a problem. The design window for this particular product was only for one side of a much lighter vehicle. Now, instead of one powering one wheel, you're using one for all 4 wheels. Anxious to see results!
1977 Austrian 710M
Jim LaGuardia
United States of America
Posts: 1704
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
Location: San Bernardino Ca
Contact:

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Jim LaGuardia »

This has been done before, and it works fine as long as there is enough movement. If I recall, a 960 or 980 joint was used.
Cheers, Jim LaGuardia
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Goatwerks/
"Arch Magus of Machines."
User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Haf-e »

kdiqq wrote:Yeah I think your largest concern will be torque after all the reduction in lo-range, but even still I don't think it will be a problem. The design window for this particular product was only for one side of a much lighter vehicle. Now, instead of one powering one wheel, you're using one for all 4 wheels. Anxious to see results!
Unlike other vehicles - the torque increase from using low-range would not affect this driveshaft since it occurs in the t-case AFTER it - not before - so this should see fairly low torque/high RPMs instead. I think as long as the centering of the shaft was correct (to prevent imbalance) it should work well. It will be interesting to see how it does - and it it does fail then its an easy change to switch back to the original driveshaft which can be kept as a spare.
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com
User avatar
MACH
Mexico
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi

Re: CV AXLE

Post by MACH »

You are right.

Lets run some ballpark numbers.

An air cooled VW bus engine makes top 127 NM @ 3400 rpm. in first gear (195/75R14 tires-2.03 m circumference) goes 23.8Km/hr. and the CV axles and tires spin at 195 rpm this translate into (3400/195/2axles)*127= 1,107NM torque.( for each axle)

At top rpm´s (4800) in fourth gear the CV axles go at 1182 rpm

PINZGAUER:
Top engine torque is 180 NM @ 2000 rpm, in first gear ( 5.33 gear ratio) it translate into 8.4 Km/hr. and 959NM @ 375 rpm at CV axle (not tires). Top rpm´s in 5th (1:1 gear ratio) goes 4500 rpm at CV axle.

SO WE HAVE ABOUT THE SAME MAX. TORQUE AT LOW RPM`S AND CLOSE TO FOUR TIMES THE MAX. RPM`S.

As for VW BUS´s CV joints endurance. Some of the most abused vehicles in the world are VW BUSES (COMBI) in Mexico City. Combis work as public transportation (known as Peseros ), run all day long in heavy traffic and haul more passengers than a VW Beetle in a clown´s university.

This weekend I went road biking with some friends, the truck followed us for 50 Km at 25 Km/hr. and we came back in it for 50 Km at 80 Km/hr.No problem.

Sorry, about the metric units, but Pinzgauers mixed with standard units are known to bring bad karma.



http://ricispage.8m.com/Pinzgauer.html

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Transaxle.html

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_te ... torque.htm
User avatar
Haf-e
United States of America
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA

Re: CV AXLE

Post by Haf-e »

Wondering if you are still running the CV driveshaft and if it is working well?
Haf-e

1971 Pinzgauer 710M

Image
Disc Brake Conversion Kits for 710 and 712 Pinzgauers
www.klugewerks.com
User avatar
MACH
Mexico
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi

Re: CV AXLE

Post by MACH »

YES, I DO. NO PROBLEMS SO FAR.

IT RUNS SMOTHER.

IF ANYONE DECIDES TO TRY IT, PLEASE, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

I ALSO INSTALLED A PINZ SSI AND A ELECTRIC POWER STEERING.FROM A GM EQUINOX
Post Reply