Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

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David Dunn
United States of America
Posts: 2274
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: Arcadia, CA

Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by David Dunn »

First off, I know almost nothing about biodiesel, but because of the price of all fuels here in the US, I was wondering about it's use in the P80s ( I also have Cummin B5.9s in a '99 Dodge 3500 and a '94 Ford F700). If all 3 of these engines can safely use it, it would put a big dent in my fuel bill. :D

What some websites have warned about was that the biodiesel may attack the seals and other rubber components of the system (and the cost of a rebuild of a injection pump wouldn't be too cost effective :cry: )

If this is a viable alternative, it may be the excuse I need to add a 1300L to my motorpool too. :D

Dave Dunn..... crazy in Arcadia :wink:
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .




ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
Twin Pinzies
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: San Juan Mountains, CO

Post by Twin Pinzies »

I have some friends that run biodiesel exclusively in all there trucks and swear by it. I plan to some day replace my two gas 710m's with the upgraded diesel models for my tour rigs. Then I can burn fry grease($2.40/gal.) instead of dinosuar juice($3.20/gal.).
Don't listen to anyone poo-pooing alternative fuels, they are just creatures of habit. Small mods will be needed, but won't wreck your engine. The technology is progressing at a very rapid rate right now.
This technology might be the only way to run our pinzies into the future!
GPSJACK
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by GPSJACK »

I remembered this article as it had me in stitches at the time, so for your amusement:-

Frying squad foils cooking oil car scam

(Scotland Yard have a famous police department called “The Flying Squad”, hence the mickey take.)

Wednesday October 9, 2002

A special police unit nicknamed the "frying squad" has been formed in a market town where hundreds of drivers are believed to be running their diesel cars on cooking oil.
Sniffing out unusually fragrant exhaust fumes, highway patrols have already collared several dozen offenders, who save more than 40p a litre by diverting oil from the kitchen cupboard to under the bonnet.

The Asda supermarket in Llanelli, south Wales, has slapped a ration on cooking oil sales, after astonished internal auditors found that it was selling far more than any other outlet in the country. Customs investigators are also involved in the "sniff patrols", which home in on any car smelling like a mobile fish and chip shop.

"It's a serious offence," said Bill O'Leary, spokesman for customs and excise, which levies tax on motor oil but not on the version used in saucepans. "By law, all cars on public roads must pay a tax on the fuel they use. Evasion carries a maximum seven-year jail term."
According to one victim of the crackdown, who did not want to be named, substituting 32p-a-litre cooking oil, with a dash of methanol, worked as sweetly in his diesel Subaru as the real, 73p-a-litre thing.

But the tell-tale odour proved his undoing when an unmarked police car flagged him down. "The officer went to the fuel tank, dipped it, and found cooking oil. I put my hands up to the offence but the car was towed away," he said. His oil savings vanished in a £500 fine for using illegal, untaxed fuel and £150 required as a towing fee.

Dyfed Powys police said they were working with customs on a stop-and-check basis because of the problem in Llanelli. While Asda limited cooking oil sales per customer, an AA spokeswoman said fry-driving "could severely damage your vehicle. You should always follow the manufacturer's instructions about which fuel to use".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 99,00.html
Dreadnought
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:30 pm
Location: Pstragowa (pronounced STRONGOVA) Eastern Poland

Re: Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by Dreadnought »

You are legally allowed to use a lot of litres of cooking oil a year, you just need to keep records (UK) it is enough to make it worth it. Google it you would be surprised how much. But here are my experiences with cooking oil. First of all I used to run Landrovers, Diesel Landrovers...They would run on cooking oil with no problems (the nay sayers said my fuel pump would blow up and the world would end) we're all still here?....I ran it on all sorts of things around that time, to get through the emissions test I would drain the tank and re-fill with green house heater fuel (this is fine kerosene with no colour) the landrover would make no smoke and was curiously quiet for a 2286cc Landrover diesel? but performance didn,t seem to suffer, about that time someone gave me 300Ltrs of old brake fluid......I mixed it 50/50 with cooking oil and the Landrover ran sweetly yet again....I also had a plethora of Rover cars all with diesel engines and ran them and the Landrover on straight cooking oil from the supermarket.....my Rover 600 would cruise happily at 100mph on cooking oil. Since I got my Pinz (with OM602 diesel) I have found that this will run happily in summer on cooking oil...(winter in Poland is no place to be running cooking oil without a special tank with a heater in it. I also have a U1300L which will run just fine on cooking oil.....I also have a UAZ 469b with an Andoria 2.4 n/a diesel....it too loves cooking oil...make your own mind up? The diesel engine will run on any oil you throw at it (cautionary!!!!) I say the simple non electronic engines will run on any oil you care to throw at them. Forget it in the high pressure common rail engines....maybe if you heat the oil to a high temp first??? I,m not going to experiment with the CRD in my Jeep unless circumstances force me. Many militaries in NATO experimented with multi fuel engines, all were not worth the development money......so some just tried throwing some Benzene and some engine oil into them...they ran no problem, just more smoke if you didn,t get the mix right. Check out the History of the diesel engine..it was designed to run on vegetable (nut oil)......They only run it on the stuff that you buy at the pumps because it is abundant......a percentage of the makeup of european diesel has to be rape seed oil.....trying to conserve and save buying so much oil from Arabs etc.
Aiming to introduce UK Politicians to Piano wire and Lamposts!
63rover
Canada
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Mt. Hope, Ont., Canada

Re: Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by 63rover »

I have a friend with 40 years experience as a diesel mechanic. When I asked him about bio-diesel a few years ago his reply was short and to the point. At approximately $1000 for a high pressure pump rebuild, not to mention the cost of injectors, how much do have to use without a problem to save enough money to pay for the possible damage? He went on to offer his rebuilding services so that he could see what failed if it did. I took his advice and use regular diesel with pump lubricating additive since the low sulfur fuel is tougher on the pumps.

Good luck.

Cheers, Clive
one2many
Australia
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by one2many »

It certainly can be done to most old school Diesel engines with an injection pump (IP) but there will be a steep learning curve.
I have set up a very small fleet (3) of Mercedes and Volvo garbage trucks to run on clean WVO as well as the companies service vehicles. It doesn't get that cold where we are but the WVO still needed to be heated (inline) and in the colder months we needed to put 2% to 5% Kerosene in the oil to stop it repeatedly blocking filters and IP screens.
The garbage company had a client that was paying them to dispose of thousands of litres vegetable oil that had only been used to flush out their fish oil capsule machines every job change, so aside from the odd fish oil capsule this WVO was clean. We stored it in 20000 litre rainwater tanks and filtered the capsules out during the transfer pumping into our 1000lt mixing tank. This was overall a very successful venture for the said company and did save them significantly on their fuel bills. Other than a period of repeatedly blocked filters we suffered no adverse affects to our engines or IP's. But it should be said there were a lot of breakdowns caused by the blocked filters and for a company time is money so it was a real PITA for all involved. When the filters and IP screens weren't blocked our trucks ran no differently to straight diesel.

I should also say it is my understanding that WVO and Biodiesel are two very different products, I think the biggest differences are in that biodiesel goes through a lot of treatment processes involving some chemicals where WVO is just that, and while I don't know very much about the biodiesel process I am led to believe that biodiesel may be more harmful to an IP than WVO but as I've never played with biodiesel I can't offer any tested knowledge on that.

Also the amount of time spent just preparing and pumping/filtering the WVO was phenomenal, so much so that if our source of WVO didn't dry up and we were still burning it we would have had to put on at least one full time worker just to prepare the fuel. The whole deal is very labour intensive.
It'd be my guess that without a free or very very cheap source of WVO that it would not really be a worthwhile venture but I have been wrong once before. :wink: like most things there are pros and cons and what is worthwhile for one person might not be worthwhile for another.

After running tens of thousands of litres of WVO through multiple trucks as well as the service vehicles they have all been back on straight diesel for many years now...none of them have suffered any IP Problems or engine issues at all as a result of putting all that WVO through them.

Hope this helps.
1985 pinzgauer 712K factory 2.7lt civilian (RHD, 4 door K)
1979 Volvo tgb 1314a (under construction to om606 diesel/722.6 trans. Dual cab/tray)
63rover
Canada
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Mt. Hope, Ont., Canada

Re: Biodiesel in the 2.4TD

Post by 63rover »

Just to add 2 cents...

I did quite a bit of research on bio-diesel at one time for my 63 LR. I know an ex-Rover factory trained diesel mechanic who rebuilt my high pressure pump when I resurrected my old truck. I asked his opinion. He just smiled and said that with diesel additive he had seen trucks get 300,000 + miles out of a pump. if I really wanted to risk the $1000 (in 2004) rebuild on saving a few cents he would be happy to hear about the results and to take my money to rebuild it again and to see how it faired with bio-D if it did fail. Considering the investments we are risking I will stick with big oil and additive for my diesels.

Cheers, Clive
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