I was wondering if it was possible to put it a diesel engine in a pinz?
Also what kind of low end torque do they have?
can you drop a drop a diesel engine into a pinz?
Moderator: TechMOGogy
There's plenty of room in the back to drop one or two, maybe up to half a dozen diesel engines!
Oh, you mean you actually want to swap engines, not just carry them around? I'm sure others will tell you this, but my opinion is don't bother. The stock air-cooled gas engine is swell; gets pretty good gas mileage, is well paired with the transmission and drivetrain, fits perfectly in the compartment. Sure, diesel is cheaper and you can do biofuel, but the amount of trouble to switch over a Pinz doesn't seem to be worth it.
And per your other question, you can't get them legally in the US. You can either change your mind, or move abroad.
Oh, you mean you actually want to swap engines, not just carry them around? I'm sure others will tell you this, but my opinion is don't bother. The stock air-cooled gas engine is swell; gets pretty good gas mileage, is well paired with the transmission and drivetrain, fits perfectly in the compartment. Sure, diesel is cheaper and you can do biofuel, but the amount of trouble to switch over a Pinz doesn't seem to be worth it.
And per your other question, you can't get them legally in the US. You can either change your mind, or move abroad.
-
NotExcessive
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:09 pm
- Contact:
That's odd: why can't you legally obtain a diesel-powered one in the USA, but it's OK to have a petrol-powered one? Not that it affects me; I'm not in the USA, but I am curious as to why.justfred wrote:And per your other question, you can't get them legally in the US. You can either change your mind, or move abroad.
The "diesel" question is one that comes up about once a month. There is no drop-in or easy conversion. The engine from a newer TD Pinz won't fit in an older gasoline Pinz. If you look objectively into the engine bay of a Pinz, you will observe that you don't have a lot of room to work with, which is the root of all evil with the conversion.
It has been argued, quite rationally, that the payback on such a conversion isn't very good.
As for the illegal comment: A diesel engine, or converting a gasoline Pinz to diesel, isn't illegal. What is illegal is to import a newer TD pinz. It is illegal becase the TD Pinzgauers are newer than 25 years old, not because they are diesel. There are several that have been imported to the USA, some because they are only used on private land; and others through some kind of importation loophole that has since been closed.
Hopefully having this thread on the latest rendition of the forum will save some folks from having to ask the question in the future!
See:
http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/repower.html
For the definitive summary.
-Evan
It has been argued, quite rationally, that the payback on such a conversion isn't very good.
As for the illegal comment: A diesel engine, or converting a gasoline Pinz to diesel, isn't illegal. What is illegal is to import a newer TD pinz. It is illegal becase the TD Pinzgauers are newer than 25 years old, not because they are diesel. There are several that have been imported to the USA, some because they are only used on private land; and others through some kind of importation loophole that has since been closed.
Hopefully having this thread on the latest rendition of the forum will save some folks from having to ask the question in the future!
See:
http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/repower.html
For the definitive summary.
-Evan
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
The subject of light to medium duty diesel powered vehicles for the rank and file are subject to alot of under the table, behind the scenes policy making but the "legislature". It is quite obvious to industry watchers that manufacturer manipulation is rife to protect market share by the big three who despite their present wobbly posture still have a great deal of sway in the halls of power.
If you look at light duty commercial vehicles all of the big three have conveniently supplied to the US market a similar tit for tat model range. Filling the market niche to coin their phrases. The odd ball I suppose is the DC Sprinter, but sales are small enough to allow Daimler Chrysler some free reign. How long that will last is yet to be seen.
If we look at cars then we are into a whole different ball park. The sale of diesel cars getting 50+mph would turn the US manufacturers on their heads. One can already see the sales of Toyota Hybrids and Hondas roaring off the lots and the gas guzzling US made SUV's are at record discounts to sell. I saw an industry article the other day denigrating these new models as promoting "screwdriver operations" by outside based manufacturers and that the big three were the only real contributers to the US economy.
That to me was pathetic especially coming from the most aggressive Manchester Economic Model in the world, yes the USA.
Now this is where things get a bit complicated. The Euro/Asian manufacturers have diesel cars that give out very low particulate emissions but they are dependant upon very low sulphur content fuels. The USA simply doesn't have the refining capacity to accomodate this requirement. At the end of the Clinton era the EPA was in the process of ordering the industy to implement low sulphur based fuels. Once Bush got in this was shelved, industry pundits now project about 10 years for the USA to catch up with the rest of the world.
I see that DC is about to power its Cherokee with an MB derived engine due in the stores by next year, interestingly the Liberty CRD is to be phased out due to its inability to comply with new legislation. This I believe is probably due to its Italian engine being "old" technology. Volkswagon seems to be ok for a short while but all of them will again get stymied by--Yes you guessed it California, their intended limits will negate diesels altogether for the short term. Again its the Euro manufacturers that will forge ahead with new technology leaving the USA to go its own way for a while.
As a British politician once said to me when questioned about the "Arms for Contras debackle". He calmly replied "It would seem that the USA is persueing its own agenda for the moment"
So why this posture, well in my humble opinion its politics as usual. The US legislators have an historical propensity of laying down short term poilcy based upon lobbiests. Since the US car industry is having a hard time to compete its resting its laurels on the E85 drum; Where they have technology to produce at low investment levels. The lobbists are no doubt beating that drum harder than the diesel guys. For them (Legistlators) the implementation is easier, furthermore the politicians love it because it makes the US agriculteral base (republican voting farmers) feel good and the conservative voting base is secured for more of the same old crap.
(They no doubt will be sipping their iced teas saying is this a great country or what!!!)
On a final note I do know of one US manufacturer developing a very low E engine for cars, that's Cummins. Their platform is a 2 litre engine for a wide vehicle useage. The development is going on in Yes you guessed it ,Europe. In Darlington --That's in Yorkshire UK for those who don't know .
May we all live in interesting times.
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
If you look at light duty commercial vehicles all of the big three have conveniently supplied to the US market a similar tit for tat model range. Filling the market niche to coin their phrases. The odd ball I suppose is the DC Sprinter, but sales are small enough to allow Daimler Chrysler some free reign. How long that will last is yet to be seen.
If we look at cars then we are into a whole different ball park. The sale of diesel cars getting 50+mph would turn the US manufacturers on their heads. One can already see the sales of Toyota Hybrids and Hondas roaring off the lots and the gas guzzling US made SUV's are at record discounts to sell. I saw an industry article the other day denigrating these new models as promoting "screwdriver operations" by outside based manufacturers and that the big three were the only real contributers to the US economy.
That to me was pathetic especially coming from the most aggressive Manchester Economic Model in the world, yes the USA.
Now this is where things get a bit complicated. The Euro/Asian manufacturers have diesel cars that give out very low particulate emissions but they are dependant upon very low sulphur content fuels. The USA simply doesn't have the refining capacity to accomodate this requirement. At the end of the Clinton era the EPA was in the process of ordering the industy to implement low sulphur based fuels. Once Bush got in this was shelved, industry pundits now project about 10 years for the USA to catch up with the rest of the world.
I see that DC is about to power its Cherokee with an MB derived engine due in the stores by next year, interestingly the Liberty CRD is to be phased out due to its inability to comply with new legislation. This I believe is probably due to its Italian engine being "old" technology. Volkswagon seems to be ok for a short while but all of them will again get stymied by--Yes you guessed it California, their intended limits will negate diesels altogether for the short term. Again its the Euro manufacturers that will forge ahead with new technology leaving the USA to go its own way for a while.
As a British politician once said to me when questioned about the "Arms for Contras debackle". He calmly replied "It would seem that the USA is persueing its own agenda for the moment"
So why this posture, well in my humble opinion its politics as usual. The US legislators have an historical propensity of laying down short term poilcy based upon lobbiests. Since the US car industry is having a hard time to compete its resting its laurels on the E85 drum; Where they have technology to produce at low investment levels. The lobbists are no doubt beating that drum harder than the diesel guys. For them (Legistlators) the implementation is easier, furthermore the politicians love it because it makes the US agriculteral base (republican voting farmers) feel good and the conservative voting base is secured for more of the same old crap.
(They no doubt will be sipping their iced teas saying is this a great country or what!!!)
On a final note I do know of one US manufacturer developing a very low E engine for cars, that's Cummins. Their platform is a 2 litre engine for a wide vehicle useage. The development is going on in Yes you guessed it ,Europe. In Darlington --That's in Yorkshire UK for those who don't know .
May we all live in interesting times.
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
OOOps no customer bashing now
-
2012
interesting times
"may you live in interesting times"... that was a chinese curse, related to the mapping of novelty in the topography the fractal wave we call "time". it shows a peak, infinite novelty at some time around 6am, 2012.12.21 (the winter solstice).
Last edited by 2012 on Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Well as for curses, I see that the petroleum refiners are now saying they cannot comply in some cases due to "residual sulphur lurking in process pipework etc."
Also some refiners are backing out of making low sulphur diesel for the moment. That should do wonders for the supply and pricing of the fuel which incidently affects almost everything we buy. Why?
Well just about everything gets shipped by road on a very efficient and viciously competitive trucking industry. Something the US can be proud of.
Dennis
PS see my up coming post on "Otto Step Down a new Rudolph is coming".
General chat section.
Also some refiners are backing out of making low sulphur diesel for the moment. That should do wonders for the supply and pricing of the fuel which incidently affects almost everything we buy. Why?
Well just about everything gets shipped by road on a very efficient and viciously competitive trucking industry. Something the US can be proud of.
Dennis
PS see my up coming post on "Otto Step Down a new Rudolph is coming".
General chat section.
OOOps no customer bashing now
-
zeichstein
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:51 pm
- Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
-
David Dunn
- Posts: 2274
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
You could drop this in the back.... and it won't matter what's in front.zeichstein wrote:with 2200 lbs of capacity it is easy to drop in the largest of diesel engines in a pinz.....
Just don't take out the gas engine....
Thomas
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
I think I could drop a 17HP kubota tractor diesel in a Pinz in a weekend. Of course It wouldn't be very fast. The problem is there are no available high enough power and rpm diesels that will fit in the space of the gas engine without major sheet metal cutting. I'm not even sure if there is a good water cooled gas candidate either but my first guess would be a Toyota 22RE since I believe the exhaust is on the left.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'73 710M
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'73 710M
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'73 710M
WD8CDH
'73 710M
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
The Toy 22R and 22RE are basic pick up truck engines. Getting a bit old in the tooth nowadays. They are know as head warpers/internal cooling port eroders and of course head gaskets blowers of fame.
They are not exactly renoun for their power output either. The 22RE can be made to produce some more respectable power across the rev range and there is a company doing just that in New Mexico.
An expensive proposition and something to add to the overall cost of repowering a Pinz should the "whim to be different" drive your ambitions.
The same can be said of DIESEL
In certain territories there is/was a diesel option for that PU truck but finding parts when downed in somewhere like Ogalala Nebraska again might prove a bit elusive.
Dennis
They are not exactly renoun for their power output either. The 22RE can be made to produce some more respectable power across the rev range and there is a company doing just that in New Mexico.
An expensive proposition and something to add to the overall cost of repowering a Pinz should the "whim to be different" drive your ambitions.
The same can be said of DIESEL
In certain territories there is/was a diesel option for that PU truck but finding parts when downed in somewhere like Ogalala Nebraska again might prove a bit elusive.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
The biggest issue is demand exceeds supply. They are not good candidates as donor engines because there are just too many toyo pickups on the road looking for rebuilt engines.lindenengineering wrote:The Toy 22R and 22RE are basic pick up truck engines. Getting a bit old in the tooth nowadays. They are know as head warpers/internal cooling port eroders and of course head gaskets blowers of fame.
A friend of mine makes a great living importing low miles Toyo engines from overseas just to satisfy the demand.
And for what it's worth, a used Toyo diesel for the pickups sells for about $3500 with all the parts for conversion. And it's not that good of an engine, nor are parts very available for it. A far better Mittsubishi diesel sells for roughly half that.
Myself, I'd rather have the stock pinz engine than pay scalpers prices for Toyo pickup engines. Not that the Toyo engine is bad, it's just not a good choice for donor usage as it's too expensive.
Here's a question: How many cracked/warped/blown heads do you hear about on the pinz engine?
Have fun,
Alan