to tube or not to tube

krick3tt · Post by **krick3tt** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:15 pm

I am thinking of putting tubes in the tires. I have the BFG MudTerrain 255/85/16 and before I go crazy and install tubes, I thought I would get a consensus on that.
Pro's and con's?

Morris

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:23 am

I am sure that I will be corrected should I be wrong, the Pinzgauer 710/712 wheels are desighned for tubes though some have found that they will accept a tubles tyre without. As I understand it the wheel rim is not realy suitable for tubeless as it is not properly shaped and at lower pressures can slip away from the rim. Having said all of that, many tyres are made and sold as tubeless and although one can put tubes in them they have not been desighned that way and some tyres are rougher than others on the inside which can cause friction and puncture the tube. Some people therefore check the inside of the tyre before mounting them with tubes and prepare them by rubbing down the inside of the tyre with sandpaper or similar to ensure a smooth finish. Choose good quality heavy duty inner tubes.

happy wheeling.

eaweidner · Post by **eaweidner** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:50 pm

I am running the same tires (BFG Mud Terrains) without tubes in my 710M and have had absolutely no issues. I also do not do anything too extreme either!

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:09 pm

Morris
In all the time I've aired down, the only time that I debeaded a tire was at 13psi, and during a quick hard left turn and the tire caught the side of a rock. I literally walked on the sidewall of the tire to reset the bead. Using a Power Tank, refilled the tire..... other than the 4 pounds of mud in the tire and the slow leak

, it was fine... I removed the tire and cleaned everything a couple days later

I recently went back to the NDCC tires and tubes on my 101 Vampire... the tire shop was talented enough to ruin 2 tubes during installation, a third with a slow leak, that when I got to it, the valve stem had sucked back into the rim

. Also watch out for a "shifting' tubes that cants the valve stem. causing the tube to split or get cut.

But, if you decide to put inner tubes into the BFGs, make sure that they are for radial tires.

Dave Dunn

krick3tt · Post by **krick3tt** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:54 pm

Thanks all,

Dave...I debeaded a tire at Calico, pilot error along with low pressure and sideways drift. Very interesting day. That is why I carry spray paint. I call it pinz in a can

I was a little worried about the slipping of the tire when the pressure is reduced and pulling the stem into the hole at the rim. Went to Firestone, they do not even carry tubes anymore. They suggested Les Schwab might have them here.
I don't expect much in the way of airing down here as most of the trails are forested routes and logging roads. Been too cold for me so far and I don't have my snow gear yet. I will be ready for next winter.

Morris

rla001 · Post by **rla001** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:18 pm

Back when I changed over to BFG muds from the Maloyas I tried pretty hard to talk Discount Tire to use the tubes in the BFG's. They absolutely refused, they said that the tubes could cause heat to build up in the tire at highway speeds and it would not be safe. I was not sure what the Pinz can do is really considered the highway speeds that they were talking about.

On the other subject I lost a bead on spring break in Moab a couple weeks ago. I was aired down to 20 psi and it did feel very squishy at that pressure. Interesting thing was it wasn't even on of the most difficult spots. Fortunately a friend I was with was carrying a CO2 bottle setup, very handy. I did air up to 25 after that. That was only the second time that I have ever lost a bead. The first time it sealed itself back up before going flat and I only needed to air it backup a little.

Rich A.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:55 pm

Rich
They were correct in not using the tubes. They were for bias ply tires and you went to radials. Radials flex more, and if I remember correctly, there is a greater friction and heat build up that can lead to failure.

In the older LRs, the rims leaked air regularly, and the tubes were needed ( the case with my Vampire with one rim), I had heard that painting the inside of the rim solve that, could be an old wive's tale, but sounds logical.
How far one can air down a tire needs to be based on the width of the tire and how tight it is on the bead of a rim...for example, if "X" size tire fits on a 6" rim nicely at the bead, the same tire will need more air pressure to hold the bead out on a 8" rim. That is why manufacturers give rim size ranges for each size of tire. Also, one of the reasons not to drive at higher speed with aired down tires is that the torque applied by the turning rim can cause the tire to slip on the rim and de-bead. As the tire spins, it has a lot of sidewall movement as it goes from a "normal" profile to where it fatten out under the load of the vehicle and contact with the road.
There is a lot more to be taken in account, and what one person does with one size of tire in a type of terrain, may not work for another with another size....

Dave Dunn

pinzwheeling · Post by **pinzwheeling** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:37 pm

I experimented with this on my last 712. I put the stock Pinzi tubes in 2 of my BFG radials (one in the middle, and one on the other side in the rear) to see if there was any difference when aired down. Uh... nope, can still pull the tire off the bead, but the tube stayed aired up and got in the way when I reseated the tire. Not really any other noticeable difference. Beadlocks, or rims from EI are probably the only way you can comfortably air down below 20PSI without popping beads.

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:53 pm

I have the rims from Cold War and have aired them down to 5psi at the buttercup snad dunes with no loss of tire. I regularly run them below 20 with no problems.

pinzwheeling · Post by **pinzwheeling** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:40 pm

mjnims wrote:I have the rims from Cold War and have aired them down to 5psi at the buttercup snad dunes with no loss of tire. I regularly run them below 20 with no problems.

Right, aftermarket rims designed for tubeless tires work great. I don't know about Cold War (I thought they went under?) rims, but Scott's setup would work well. I think I might be buying some from him soon.

krick3tt · Post by **krick3tt** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:34 pm

I ordered tubes today from Les Schwab. Have them by Wednesday?

I was having continuing leaks from the tubeless tires, at the rim...very strange. Got tired of airing up every time I wanted to go for a ride.

We will see how it works.

Morris