EFI - is it really available now?
Moderator: TechMOGogy
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
I have been calling 3-4 Pinz FI owners per day as I have the time. Its impossible to sit down and call 20 people from all different parts of the world the same day, so I have been breaking it down by time zones as best as possible.
I still have 6-7 purchasers to contact and might get all of them completed tomorrow if I can keep from getting pulled into the lab for a dyno session.
Yes, the people on the list have been patient, very patient and I am doing my best to fulfill an obligation to them. Most people in my position that had outlaid the time I have to develop these kits would have simply given up and taken their money when the system needed a total re-vamp last year following the lab results of the system. I did not do this and will not, even though my company stands to LOSE money on the sales of these kits, even at the altered price.
To date the funds that were used for deposits for the kits have been retained by Euro Truck- ALL the expense for the kit development, field and lab testing have come out of my wallet.
Until you attempt and succeed at creating a completely new induction system for a very small market of specialty vehicles please do not pass judgement on those that are actually doing the development and creating the kits. If your feet filled my shoes I'd say that you'd have a much different understanding of this situation and you'd be out about 30,000 bucks, only to have someone passing judgement on you- someone that has no opinion- because his name isn't even on the damn list!
Yes, my fuse is short on this topic. I have damn near 3 years of MY time invested (nights, weekends, holidays- MY TIME) and 2 solid months of my lab time (that I could have been charging over 1000.00/ day for a developmental customer) and have done my damn best to make the system actually function correctly. Anyone else would have thrown it onto the market 2.5 years ago and would have known less about the arrangement than their customers did- thats not how I work.
Yes, the kit is past due. Yes the owners will be happy when the kits are delivered as advertised.
That said, EVERYONE on the list that is in the US will hear from me via telephone by the end of this week. Those who I chatted with last week were all very courteous and were easy to work with, fully understanding of what is involved with modernizing the engine with a full engine management system.
I still have 6-7 purchasers to contact and might get all of them completed tomorrow if I can keep from getting pulled into the lab for a dyno session.
Yes, the people on the list have been patient, very patient and I am doing my best to fulfill an obligation to them. Most people in my position that had outlaid the time I have to develop these kits would have simply given up and taken their money when the system needed a total re-vamp last year following the lab results of the system. I did not do this and will not, even though my company stands to LOSE money on the sales of these kits, even at the altered price.
To date the funds that were used for deposits for the kits have been retained by Euro Truck- ALL the expense for the kit development, field and lab testing have come out of my wallet.
Until you attempt and succeed at creating a completely new induction system for a very small market of specialty vehicles please do not pass judgement on those that are actually doing the development and creating the kits. If your feet filled my shoes I'd say that you'd have a much different understanding of this situation and you'd be out about 30,000 bucks, only to have someone passing judgement on you- someone that has no opinion- because his name isn't even on the damn list!
Yes, my fuse is short on this topic. I have damn near 3 years of MY time invested (nights, weekends, holidays- MY TIME) and 2 solid months of my lab time (that I could have been charging over 1000.00/ day for a developmental customer) and have done my damn best to make the system actually function correctly. Anyone else would have thrown it onto the market 2.5 years ago and would have known less about the arrangement than their customers did- thats not how I work.
Yes, the kit is past due. Yes the owners will be happy when the kits are delivered as advertised.
That said, EVERYONE on the list that is in the US will hear from me via telephone by the end of this week. Those who I chatted with last week were all very courteous and were easy to work with, fully understanding of what is involved with modernizing the engine with a full engine management system.
Exactly what I have been saying about the Pinz community for some time now, against the thoughts of the few (names withheld to protect the guilty).That said, EVERYONE on the list that is in the US will hear from me via telephone by the end of this week. Those who I chatted with last week were all very courteous and were easy to work with, fully understanding of what is involved with modernizing the engine with a full engine management system.
Mike
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
I learned long ago that every group of people has 10% of it's members that can't be pleased, or that make smart assed remarks.
Those 10% stick out more than the 90% that are courteous and respectful.
I have no tolerance for the 10% and try to avoid them as much as possible- they can keep their dollar because it is more important to them, than it is to me! if 75Pinz would have bought a kit from me, I would have given his money back without him asking.
Those 10% stick out more than the 90% that are courteous and respectful.
I have no tolerance for the 10% and try to avoid them as much as possible- they can keep their dollar because it is more important to them, than it is to me! if 75Pinz would have bought a kit from me, I would have given his money back without him asking.
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Jake,
Having followed your posts, several of them, over many months, I don't blame you for having a short fuse.
The Pinz community owes you a lot, for your perserverance.
Bad news always travels fastest. So it's no wonder some people complain.
The badmouthing on this site has caused a few decent folk to abandon it. I hope you don't become one of them.
We may not always speak up, but there ARE a lot of guys out here who appreciate your work and presence here. Thanks.
Paul Underwood
ps. Good luck with the 914, I'm jealous.
pps. I hope some day that I can afford one of your EFIs!
Having followed your posts, several of them, over many months, I don't blame you for having a short fuse.
The Pinz community owes you a lot, for your perserverance.
Bad news always travels fastest. So it's no wonder some people complain.
The badmouthing on this site has caused a few decent folk to abandon it. I hope you don't become one of them.
We may not always speak up, but there ARE a lot of guys out here who appreciate your work and presence here. Thanks.
Paul Underwood
ps. Good luck with the 914, I'm jealous.
pps. I hope some day that I can afford one of your EFIs!
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
Paul,
Thanks for your reply..
Now I'll share with you guys a recent message that I received on the topic of the EFI arrangement.
here is another that came to me via email concerning 75pinz
Thanks for your reply..
Now I'll share with you guys a recent message that I received on the topic of the EFI arrangement.
Beautifully said by an unknown member of the forums that just so happens to deal with people everyday- just like I do..Jake
There's a lovely expression from my part of the world. "It's ready when it's ready"
So who gives a rip if it took longer to perfect. The problem is that if you gave it a half assed job to start with you would never hear the end of it.
Better to get it right.
here is another that came to me via email concerning 75pinz
Jake,
Ignore ***** ******* from Iowa, he is a first rate ass.
At least one business man made pretty good money putting out a half assed product. Bill Gates comes to mind.
Just bustin you nuts Jake
. Even though I don't forsee EFI in my future it is best to put out the best you can regardless of the product, I know this is something you have already learned.
Just bustin you nuts Jake
. Even though I don't forsee EFI in my future it is best to put out the best you can regardless of the product, I know this is something you have already learned.Mike
THomas, I spoke to jake to day. As for some one who bitc#@# on the forum more than most and has complained about Jake alot, and voiced my problems with him. I now understand a little more. why it has taken so long. I am glade he has stuck with it and am looking forward to the install. I am also glade he's doing as much as he has. So that i don't have the same experience. as i did with the last substandard pinz mechanic. Its good to see real companies like Aircooled Technology and Expedition Imports and any one else doing real research for such a small group
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Jim LaGuardia
- Posts: 1704
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
- Location: San Bernardino Ca
- Contact:
I find this amazing, I have been running EFI for 2 years now and have done most of my own tuning.
My basic parts kit with instructions is readily available
I do feel for those waiting and hope Jakes system runs as well as what I am using. My 8860 is currently getting a hardware update and will have full sequential controls when it returns
By the way, I can also do installs for those who buy Jakes system
The most time consuming part is pulling the tank
My basic parts kit with instructions is readily available
I do feel for those waiting and hope Jakes system runs as well as what I am using. My 8860 is currently getting a hardware update and will have full sequential controls when it returns
By the way, I can also do installs for those who buy Jakes system
The most time consuming part is pulling the tank
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
Jim, the tank may not have to be pulled. I have been trying to work out a way that would not mandate this and believe I have it taken care of...
Having dealt with programmable EFI for the better part of a decade I know the most challenging part of functionality is user interface. The more powerful and optioned set ups lose functionality and user friendliness and that makes them MORE difficult to tune with more gadgets to confuse people.
I have used Motec, Autronic, Haltech, Emerald and several other systems (and even helped an EE finish his own system 100%) and can say that the big edge these systems have for people who are not "mechanics" is user interface.
All that power is worthless if the system can't be easily understood by any of the people who are using it. In the past when I set up insane engines with much more optioned systems the users (who were never mechanics) couldn't tune the system- they got frustrated and gave up or they took it to a shop that REALLY screwed it up.
With SDS on my turn key engines I seldom ever even have a phone call from an installer/tuner and that speaks volumes for the user interface and the simplicity of the design.
Drop the controls of your 8860 in the hands of a novice and do the same with the SDS and see what happens. Thats my driving force behind SDS for the ECU and wire harness for this arrangement. Plus, a laptop isn't general issue for an off road trip for most people- the SDS hand held programmer fits in the glove box and is waterproof.
You'll find that sequential has a bit better fuel economy, but I think you'll find that batch fire offers much greater torque and throttle response at low engine speeds. I have only seen gains with sequential arrangements on 8,000 RPM full blown, 14:1 race engines. BUT with your plenum and injectors results may vary.
I guarantee that if that arrangement in your truck came to my lab that you'd see exactly what you are leaving on the table. I didn't know until the first round of field testing was done as the truck drove much better than with carbs, got better MPG and etc, but the differences between round 1 and round 2 of the field testing after the lab re-development was HUGE. The truck was an entirely different vehicle and even the engine's harmonics were eliminated at most speeds and greatly reduced at others. I have learned time and time again that a mix of both field and lab development is necessary to optimize anything mechanical. After the lab tests I had to make some value changes at some manifold pressure points, but they weren't drastic.
Had I never went to the lab and only used the field testing we would have already had the system delivered, but they would not be optimized and thats not acceptable for anyone like me. If you haven't noticed I am a perfectionist and I will guarantee that I am harder to please than any of the 20 people on our FI wish list.
Now:
I called a few more FI buyers today.. None of them were mechanics and all were the typical FI novice that I am trying my best to accommodate. None of the people I chatted with sounded like they had an engine shop running in the background, so my desire to make the system easy to comprehend has certainly been spot on.
The remaining 6 customers will be contacted tomorrow afternoon. I left voice messages for 4 individuals today. I will only be available for chats through Thursday before I start camshaft development on a big project and will be ignoring the phone for several weeks to concentrate, so please call me back if we miss you. I will post a list of who I still need to contact tomorrow.
All that said, this is the "vehicle" that the SDS system was first outfitted and where 75% of systems sold are used. I don't think I need to say more about user interface, tune-ability or reliability.
Having dealt with programmable EFI for the better part of a decade I know the most challenging part of functionality is user interface. The more powerful and optioned set ups lose functionality and user friendliness and that makes them MORE difficult to tune with more gadgets to confuse people.
I have used Motec, Autronic, Haltech, Emerald and several other systems (and even helped an EE finish his own system 100%) and can say that the big edge these systems have for people who are not "mechanics" is user interface.
All that power is worthless if the system can't be easily understood by any of the people who are using it. In the past when I set up insane engines with much more optioned systems the users (who were never mechanics) couldn't tune the system- they got frustrated and gave up or they took it to a shop that REALLY screwed it up.
With SDS on my turn key engines I seldom ever even have a phone call from an installer/tuner and that speaks volumes for the user interface and the simplicity of the design.
Drop the controls of your 8860 in the hands of a novice and do the same with the SDS and see what happens. Thats my driving force behind SDS for the ECU and wire harness for this arrangement. Plus, a laptop isn't general issue for an off road trip for most people- the SDS hand held programmer fits in the glove box and is waterproof.
You'll find that sequential has a bit better fuel economy, but I think you'll find that batch fire offers much greater torque and throttle response at low engine speeds. I have only seen gains with sequential arrangements on 8,000 RPM full blown, 14:1 race engines. BUT with your plenum and injectors results may vary.
I guarantee that if that arrangement in your truck came to my lab that you'd see exactly what you are leaving on the table. I didn't know until the first round of field testing was done as the truck drove much better than with carbs, got better MPG and etc, but the differences between round 1 and round 2 of the field testing after the lab re-development was HUGE. The truck was an entirely different vehicle and even the engine's harmonics were eliminated at most speeds and greatly reduced at others. I have learned time and time again that a mix of both field and lab development is necessary to optimize anything mechanical. After the lab tests I had to make some value changes at some manifold pressure points, but they weren't drastic.
Had I never went to the lab and only used the field testing we would have already had the system delivered, but they would not be optimized and thats not acceptable for anyone like me. If you haven't noticed I am a perfectionist and I will guarantee that I am harder to please than any of the 20 people on our FI wish list.
Now:
I called a few more FI buyers today.. None of them were mechanics and all were the typical FI novice that I am trying my best to accommodate. None of the people I chatted with sounded like they had an engine shop running in the background, so my desire to make the system easy to comprehend has certainly been spot on.
The remaining 6 customers will be contacted tomorrow afternoon. I left voice messages for 4 individuals today. I will only be available for chats through Thursday before I start camshaft development on a big project and will be ignoring the phone for several weeks to concentrate, so please call me back if we miss you. I will post a list of who I still need to contact tomorrow.
All that said, this is the "vehicle" that the SDS system was first outfitted and where 75% of systems sold are used. I don't think I need to say more about user interface, tune-ability or reliability.
Greetings from Austria!
I too find it great that you took the effort to design the best system you are
able to build, but still i really would like to know when or if the system would be available to me, as there currently are friends of mine in the US who could take the sys. over here.
regards
Gunnar
I too find it great that you took the effort to design the best system you are
able to build, but still i really would like to know when or if the system would be available to me, as there currently are friends of mine in the US who could take the sys. over here.
regards
Gunnar
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
OK, I have no made phone contact and shared details with most all the U.S. Pinz FI kit owners except the following.
I was unable to contact the following purchasers, but left voice mails for the following:
Gary Burt
Mark Gastemeyer
Michael Herbert
Pat McCabe
JR Reich
Jamey Rhoads
If you are a member of the list above please call me direct at 706 892 8192. I may be hard to catch because of some dyno work I am doing that is taking most of my shop time, but tomorrow I will be available most of the day.
I will continue calling each of those I have not chatted with yet as I get an opportunity because I am ready to be finished with the entire project!
Only one depositor was unwilling to accept the 500.00 increase over the orginal price and has his spot for sale, his name is Bob Rainek and he wants to SELL his spot in line. This means a forum member can contact me if they would like his kit.
I was unable to contact the following purchasers, but left voice mails for the following:
Gary Burt
Mark Gastemeyer
Michael Herbert
Pat McCabe
JR Reich
Jamey Rhoads
If you are a member of the list above please call me direct at 706 892 8192. I may be hard to catch because of some dyno work I am doing that is taking most of my shop time, but tomorrow I will be available most of the day.
I will continue calling each of those I have not chatted with yet as I get an opportunity because I am ready to be finished with the entire project!
Only one depositor was unwilling to accept the 500.00 increase over the orginal price and has his spot for sale, his name is Bob Rainek and he wants to SELL his spot in line. This means a forum member can contact me if they would like his kit.