The biggest improvement I noticed w/syn oils was a reduction of gear noise,esp in a K.
Mark
Buggered up gearboxes
Moderator: TechMOGogy
oils
FWIW I have been using plain motor oil in my transmissions for awhile now, including the Pinz. My M37 which is an old transmission doesn't leak a drop of the 30wt pennzoil that in there and when I check it it looks like new. It's been in there five years and shifts fine. I am pretty sure Dennis is right. There is not much difference other than our wanting there to be a difference for spending so much more.
Whilst I run "plain" oil in my Pinny (originally Castrol, but for the last 6 years, Penrite) and have done forever, I know the guys in Sydney swear by "synthetic".
I work on the theory that I like to change my oil quite regularly, whereas those that are running synthetics (particularly the more expensive ones) don't ...... I guess it's another one of those age old age debates as to which is better!
I work on the theory that I like to change my oil quite regularly, whereas those that are running synthetics (particularly the more expensive ones) don't ...... I guess it's another one of those age old age debates as to which is better!
Peter
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
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Lightningpinz
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Co
Hey Jim A couple of my clients use Redline MT90 in their Pinz trannies, and the shift quality improved especially in colder weather. Tongue in Cheek, I'm told it never rains in Southern California (Does it snow?) How cold is cold? Here where it is cold, I better try that red line, maybe it will shift like an automatic. 
Hey Dennis is this how you do an automatic trany in a pinz. Is the next Red bull gonna get an auto tranny to go with that diesel?
Hey Dennis is this how you do an automatic trany in a pinz. Is the next Red bull gonna get an auto tranny to go with that diesel?-
Jim LaGuardia
- Posts: 1707
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
- Location: San Bernardino Ca
- Contact:
) trans
I tried the MT90 and the MTL in my first Pinz. It worked fine but was no better in the cold than the GL4 it replaced. Cold here is way below zero and quite a bit of snow. I have run 10w30 in mine for the winter and it shifted way better than any of the other things I have tried besides ATF which I think is approx. 20wt.
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ABSOLUTSECURITY
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 am
- Location: SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
- Contact:
Wow!!!!!!!!!
All I wanted was a simple answer ( thank you Jim!) -
G
G
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
AS
Here's a simple answer mate- OVERKILL- for the mostpart.
Jim I didn't think it got that cold in your part of the US!
Frankly I don't see much in the reported shifting problems at temperatures as low as minus 25 F here in Colorado using regular oil. Obviously I often do cold starts on customers' Pinzies at those temps with the clutch dipped to take the load off the starter. Occasionally I can say that have I noticed in some extreme cases engine stalling when using regular 85 weight having then dropping the clutch when everything is that cold. But shifting, unless there's a clutch, linkage, or gearbox problem I haven't really noticed anything significant. Those trucks with syn oils in the "box' don't appear to suffer that stalling problem but in any case once its been running for a few minutes everthing from our experiences seems fine.
Frankly I would have had a hard time trying to enter a problem report to the chief engineer at BL where I worked based upon such subjective customer info/evidence. Based purely on operating costs per mile the benefits of using designer oils might be questionable, has anyone done an actual cost analysis on using these oils?
I suspect alot of this acceptance is for the most part is hype. Not for this tech section but I will post on "general chat" an amusing recant of a Public Radio clip I listened to about seven years ago by one Andre Codresciou a Romanin journalist. It sums up this subject very well!
Cheers Dennis.
Oh by the way what's the idea of listing the "family fleet" at the foot of postings? Curious?
Here's a simple answer mate- OVERKILL- for the mostpart.
Jim I didn't think it got that cold in your part of the US!
Frankly I don't see much in the reported shifting problems at temperatures as low as minus 25 F here in Colorado using regular oil. Obviously I often do cold starts on customers' Pinzies at those temps with the clutch dipped to take the load off the starter. Occasionally I can say that have I noticed in some extreme cases engine stalling when using regular 85 weight having then dropping the clutch when everything is that cold. But shifting, unless there's a clutch, linkage, or gearbox problem I haven't really noticed anything significant. Those trucks with syn oils in the "box' don't appear to suffer that stalling problem but in any case once its been running for a few minutes everthing from our experiences seems fine.
Frankly I would have had a hard time trying to enter a problem report to the chief engineer at BL where I worked based upon such subjective customer info/evidence. Based purely on operating costs per mile the benefits of using designer oils might be questionable, has anyone done an actual cost analysis on using these oils?
I suspect alot of this acceptance is for the most part is hype. Not for this tech section but I will post on "general chat" an amusing recant of a Public Radio clip I listened to about seven years ago by one Andre Codresciou a Romanin journalist. It sums up this subject very well!
Cheers Dennis.
Oh by the way what's the idea of listing the "family fleet" at the foot of postings? Curious?
OOOps no customer bashing now
The company I use to work for did two 4 year test one with regular oil one with syn. oils were changed at the same intervals based on hours. the syn after every oil change still looked like new. after 4 years we cost in repairs verse cost in oil and the amount of break downs the saving was in the millions. But this was an industrail applcation nothing to do with auto's they also took in account for down time as part of the savings.
If one wanted a confirmation of the oil battles it is just a matter of oil analysis. We do an analysis before even thinking of doing an oil change on any of the diesel engines on the farm. It is amazing what the results can tell you and how much labor / oils you can save on doing one of these first. I suppose a Pinz could get the same treatment but it never will get the miles or treatment a farm tractor or a 2.5 ton truck would get in a year. It's all in how much you are into preventative maintenance I guess.
1975 710M
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Kiwibru
You have hit it on the head!
Maintenace or really the lack of it!
The majority of failures we see on Pinzgauers are a result of lack of proper maintenace, tinkering with systems when its best left to someone who has a modecum of mechanical knowledge or ignoring warning symptoms.
The best 'un has to be a recent experience. About a year ago I sold a consigned 710M to a client who had the full service "Kahuna" done including syn oils. A few months ago I got a call on a cell phone "Dennis my oil light is blinking, I have just come down from Ft Collins and I am on C470 doing 60 mph, What do you think is wrong"?
Have you checked the oil I enquired? Silence then "When should I do that". Sounds like immediately from what you are saying! I retorted. "OK I will pull off and get it checked". Hangs up.
Next day, phone call, "Dennis I filled it up and oil is pissing all over the floor in my garage ". What's wrong? Did you check the oil?- Yes when I got home. Why didn't you stop and check it, oh I was late so I carried on it was only ten miles to the house. There was bang and I lost power what do you think is wrong? How much oil did you put in it? 8 qrts I think. well alot.
Truck turns up at the shop on the hook. A quick glance and there is a big bloody great hole in the crankcase! With a leg out of bed to boot!
Customer turns up and is shown the damage. Well that synthetic oil is supposed to stop that sort of thing doesn't it?----came the comment. No checking your oil and maintaining it does that!
Cah ching cah ching,the fix was a new engine. (just had one kicking around on the shop floor) Thank God for American Express! It was fillet minion that night for the kids and an expensive bottle of Cab for me!
Now if I bring home some fancy grub like steak the kids all say who blew up their car dad?
Dennis
You have hit it on the head!
Maintenace or really the lack of it!
The majority of failures we see on Pinzgauers are a result of lack of proper maintenace, tinkering with systems when its best left to someone who has a modecum of mechanical knowledge or ignoring warning symptoms.
The best 'un has to be a recent experience. About a year ago I sold a consigned 710M to a client who had the full service "Kahuna" done including syn oils. A few months ago I got a call on a cell phone "Dennis my oil light is blinking, I have just come down from Ft Collins and I am on C470 doing 60 mph, What do you think is wrong"?
Have you checked the oil I enquired? Silence then "When should I do that". Sounds like immediately from what you are saying! I retorted. "OK I will pull off and get it checked". Hangs up.
Next day, phone call, "Dennis I filled it up and oil is pissing all over the floor in my garage ". What's wrong? Did you check the oil?- Yes when I got home. Why didn't you stop and check it, oh I was late so I carried on it was only ten miles to the house. There was bang and I lost power what do you think is wrong? How much oil did you put in it? 8 qrts I think. well alot.
Truck turns up at the shop on the hook. A quick glance and there is a big bloody great hole in the crankcase! With a leg out of bed to boot!
Customer turns up and is shown the damage. Well that synthetic oil is supposed to stop that sort of thing doesn't it?----came the comment. No checking your oil and maintaining it does that!
Cah ching cah ching,the fix was a new engine. (just had one kicking around on the shop floor) Thank God for American Express! It was fillet minion that night for the kids and an expensive bottle of Cab for me!
Now if I bring home some fancy grub like steak the kids all say who blew up their car dad?
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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pinzinator
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:12 pm
- Location: Indio, California
I got tired of walking into parts stores and asking for Redline 90. Usually the idiot behind the counter either didn't know what the stuff was, or just said "What we have is what we have". So I finally found it on Amazon.com, of all places. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Syntheti ... B0006HKN6I The price is right.
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Kiwibru
Its not just Pinz owners. LR owners can be just as bad.
Last summer ago we did a 90K service on a P38 2000 RRover. Its a biggy and the price is around $600 for the whole Kahuna.
I pointed out that the top hose has been modified, and it needed to be replaced urgently. No, came the reply I am selling the truck for a new Landrover next week so do only the minimum. Truck leaves, happy customer.
Two weeks later a meek individual on the phone announces he has melted his engine. The dealer wants just a hair under $10K to fix it.
What happened I enquired? WEEELL that hose you mentioned ruptured at high speed and I melted the engine. Why didn't you stop immediatly and a call a tow truck since you were on the freeway? I enquired. Well I didn't want to pay for a tow so I drove it home at 100 miles per hour! I thought the air flow through the radiator would keep it cool for the duration home!!!
Cah ching cah ching I/we did it for $7000 nice end of the month bono. Amex again, they must love me with all that commission they make!
Some mothers do have 'em!
Pinzinator, Redline is hard to find, I had a customer ask me to fill his motor home gearbox with the stuff. In the whole Denver metro area no-one had it.
Dennis
Its not just Pinz owners. LR owners can be just as bad.
Last summer ago we did a 90K service on a P38 2000 RRover. Its a biggy and the price is around $600 for the whole Kahuna.
I pointed out that the top hose has been modified, and it needed to be replaced urgently. No, came the reply I am selling the truck for a new Landrover next week so do only the minimum. Truck leaves, happy customer.
Two weeks later a meek individual on the phone announces he has melted his engine. The dealer wants just a hair under $10K to fix it.
What happened I enquired? WEEELL that hose you mentioned ruptured at high speed and I melted the engine. Why didn't you stop immediatly and a call a tow truck since you were on the freeway? I enquired. Well I didn't want to pay for a tow so I drove it home at 100 miles per hour! I thought the air flow through the radiator would keep it cool for the duration home!!!
Cah ching cah ching I/we did it for $7000 nice end of the month bono. Amex again, they must love me with all that commission they make!
Some mothers do have 'em!
Pinzinator, Redline is hard to find, I had a customer ask me to fill his motor home gearbox with the stuff. In the whole Denver metro area no-one had it.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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Lightningpinz
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Co
Ok Dennis tell them about the Hummer!!!!! The one with the breathalizer. Yeah you have to hum and blow into a machine to start the Hummer (a Hummer start for your Hummer)!! 
But anyway. What happens when you fill the fuel tank of a DIESEL hummer with gasoline. Then continue to drive it even though it blows LOTS of grey smoke (think of a mosquito FOGGER). OOPS, I won't mention the tree parts stuck in the broken fiberglass or the ripped off mirror or smashed aluminum rear parts. OOPS the price of admission went up. Pinz wasn't the Hummer recovery vehicle, TOW truck was.
Can I get adopted and share the Filet Mignon or the Cab??? Beats Ball Park franks and Schaffers beer!!! Maybe even just a bottle of Boons farm or Thunder bird. No MD 20-20 though I gotta go to work tomorrow.
I did pick up a Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Tadcaster Taddy Porter. I drank it cold (Don't Own a Lucas electric refrigerator) Good Beer. Gawd am I gonna pay for that crack tomorrow. If ya can't poke the boss who can ya poke??
But anyway. What happens when you fill the fuel tank of a DIESEL hummer with gasoline. Then continue to drive it even though it blows LOTS of grey smoke (think of a mosquito FOGGER). OOPS, I won't mention the tree parts stuck in the broken fiberglass or the ripped off mirror or smashed aluminum rear parts. OOPS the price of admission went up. Pinz wasn't the Hummer recovery vehicle, TOW truck was.
Can I get adopted and share the Filet Mignon or the Cab??? Beats Ball Park franks and Schaffers beer!!!
Maybe even just a bottle of Boons farm or Thunder bird. No MD 20-20 though I gotta go to work tomorrow. I did pick up a Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Tadcaster Taddy Porter. I drank it cold (Don't Own a Lucas electric refrigerator) Good Beer. Gawd am I gonna pay for that crack tomorrow. If ya can't poke the boss who can ya poke??