Well John and the forum, just goes to show a H1 Hummer makes most people think of when they were a kid and a much wanted Tonka toy.
The problem is when you grow up that Tonka Toy is just that a toy.
On a serious side though I had a chat with a just returned NG soldier who had done a tour of duty in my old stamping ground "IRAQ". He was in picking up converted alternators for Haggelunds.
After a few minutes of idle chit chat he mentioned, "Oh I see you fix HumVees he enquired". "Yes I replied what a piece of junk. I noticed when the engine is dead you cannot even steer the F----k---g thing". Yes he replied "I lost several comrades to RPG's in those things. When you get stuck and the engine dies with those hydraulic winches, you have nothing to pull you out. You are a sitting target".
You know I had a few days with your forces in the Basrah area he continued. Those, wadda yah call 'em Pinzgauers? are great easy to drive and those fast attack Landrovers are never stuck from what I saw. I wish we had something like that in our arsenal he continued. I suppose it comes from buying a vehicle designed by a commitee with an obsolete engine. It wasn't much good in Civvi street so let the army have those that no-one wants.
Well John by the time we have fixed all the exterior appendages, the brakes and the fuel system I bet there will be plenty Fillet Minion & Cab bottles floating around to quench your satisfy your yearning for Gastronomie......
Dennis
So when the posin' is over there's only Landrover. --And a Pinz of course!
Buggered up gearboxes
Moderator: TechMOGogy
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
-
springhill
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: New Mexico
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
John.
In short any vehicle with "soft" shells are no match for an RPG. Indeed the subject has got much press coverage in the UK on the vunerability of Pinz/LR floors to IUD's
Indeed the amoured stuff like M1's and Warriors are also taking significant hits with Iranian/Hetzbollah inspired IUD warheads.
I think what the Guardsman was refering to to when he discussed the HUMVEE's limitations with me was several fold. At least I interpreted the conversation thus.
The 6.2 lump in a HUMVee was never a "happy" unit and did not enjoy the best of reputation even before the emergence of the is MIl truck. Why they installed this in the first place makes me think of Dollars by the millions for some sectors and I'll leave it at that.
The locker system on this vehicle is a chore to operate compare it to a Pinzgauer and there is no comparison especially in a panic situation. (Like someone pot shotting at you). Having lived in Iraq for six years I had experience with the desert dirt that I suppose we used to call moondust. When the rains come this stuff is the most sticky and difficult to drive in and bogs down some of the best 4wd's out there. Couple that with an unrealible vehicle and there's a recipe for a potential disaster.
Unreliable US kit??? In short yes. Need I remind you the US has been fannying around in Iraq for something like 5 years now and I am sure the maintenance of the fleet must be showing some fraying at the edges ("I am being kind") The Humvee has a propensity to cut out with fueling issues . So coupled with a strained maintainance regimen , well used running down fleet stranded mil trucks are the norm it seems judging by the discussions we had. It is only a matter of time when a stranding and no winch leaves you venerable to attack once the jungle drums have relayed the message of fresh meat!
Remember the modus operandi of the insurgents is to wear down the US to a point where its too costly to stay. I state that in the widest possible sense. So far they are proving to be quite effective.
You know this is not a new concept. Alexander suffered such a humiliation at the hands of the Indians causing him to turn westward across the Dashte Lut, the British Army in the America's got the run around in the southern states before the coup de grace at Yorktown, the Vermacht had the same treatment on the Russian front and the US has already had a drubbing in SE Asia. Why this is a surprise today quite honestly astounds me.
I think the popularity of the Pinz with the MIL is reliability and ease of maintenance. From my experiences with the HumVee I would be less inclined to maintain this "vehicle" in the heat of the Iraqi sun. The truck is difficult to work on to say the least. Field repairs are limited and you need a shop to do good work. The Pinz on the other hand is easily a field repair truck and its concept came about when the maxim was that the Red Army would knock out all facilities in Western Europe if it decided to go on a walkabout. It spawned a number of defense products including the Harrier that could be repaired/maintained in overpasses/barns and such like.
You know years ago I mentioned to our mil sales people that the Pinzgauer passed the FINBRA test. The reply was well we and the Yanks have something better! In the case of the Humvee I am not so convinced !
Dennis
PS It is said that he who ignores history is bound to repeat it.
In the case of Britain versus the Colonies 1776 etc. Parliament was faced with a motion to continue the war with a surge of troops or withdraw. They, as we know by history chose the latter. Why you might ask? Well Parliament withdrew funding as the electorate wouldn't tolerate any more tax increases. Sound familiar!
In short any vehicle with "soft" shells are no match for an RPG. Indeed the subject has got much press coverage in the UK on the vunerability of Pinz/LR floors to IUD's
Indeed the amoured stuff like M1's and Warriors are also taking significant hits with Iranian/Hetzbollah inspired IUD warheads.
I think what the Guardsman was refering to to when he discussed the HUMVEE's limitations with me was several fold. At least I interpreted the conversation thus.
The 6.2 lump in a HUMVee was never a "happy" unit and did not enjoy the best of reputation even before the emergence of the is MIl truck. Why they installed this in the first place makes me think of Dollars by the millions for some sectors and I'll leave it at that.
The locker system on this vehicle is a chore to operate compare it to a Pinzgauer and there is no comparison especially in a panic situation. (Like someone pot shotting at you). Having lived in Iraq for six years I had experience with the desert dirt that I suppose we used to call moondust. When the rains come this stuff is the most sticky and difficult to drive in and bogs down some of the best 4wd's out there. Couple that with an unrealible vehicle and there's a recipe for a potential disaster.
Unreliable US kit??? In short yes. Need I remind you the US has been fannying around in Iraq for something like 5 years now and I am sure the maintenance of the fleet must be showing some fraying at the edges ("I am being kind") The Humvee has a propensity to cut out with fueling issues . So coupled with a strained maintainance regimen , well used running down fleet stranded mil trucks are the norm it seems judging by the discussions we had. It is only a matter of time when a stranding and no winch leaves you venerable to attack once the jungle drums have relayed the message of fresh meat!
Remember the modus operandi of the insurgents is to wear down the US to a point where its too costly to stay. I state that in the widest possible sense. So far they are proving to be quite effective.
You know this is not a new concept. Alexander suffered such a humiliation at the hands of the Indians causing him to turn westward across the Dashte Lut, the British Army in the America's got the run around in the southern states before the coup de grace at Yorktown, the Vermacht had the same treatment on the Russian front and the US has already had a drubbing in SE Asia. Why this is a surprise today quite honestly astounds me.
I think the popularity of the Pinz with the MIL is reliability and ease of maintenance. From my experiences with the HumVee I would be less inclined to maintain this "vehicle" in the heat of the Iraqi sun. The truck is difficult to work on to say the least. Field repairs are limited and you need a shop to do good work. The Pinz on the other hand is easily a field repair truck and its concept came about when the maxim was that the Red Army would knock out all facilities in Western Europe if it decided to go on a walkabout. It spawned a number of defense products including the Harrier that could be repaired/maintained in overpasses/barns and such like.
You know years ago I mentioned to our mil sales people that the Pinzgauer passed the FINBRA test. The reply was well we and the Yanks have something better! In the case of the Humvee I am not so convinced !
Dennis
PS It is said that he who ignores history is bound to repeat it.
In the case of Britain versus the Colonies 1776 etc. Parliament was faced with a motion to continue the war with a surge of troops or withdraw. They, as we know by history chose the latter. Why you might ask? Well Parliament withdrew funding as the electorate wouldn't tolerate any more tax increases. Sound familiar!
OOOps no customer bashing now
-
springhill
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: New Mexico
Dennis,
I was being a smart ass!!! Every military vehicle in use has its downfalls.
As for Great Britain citizens not wanting to pay for the 1776 war--if they had known the vast resources of the future---they might have had a change of mind! Hind sight is just that --- looking at your big ass in the mirror and wondering what happened!!!!!!!! I would of course argue that the Iraq War and the War of Independance are two different situations. There were no other countries coming to our aid, nor has there ever been.
Yes, maybe the French fought with us, but not really---As usual.
I don't think the H1 or H2 or H3 are the perfect vehicles, but I will argue the 4 wheeling ability with anyone. I will take my H2 anywhere you want to take a pinz ( because I have ). It's not the ultimate 4x4, but I haven't found one yet---and I like vehicles more than most. Hell, I just would like to find something reliable, capable, and inexpensive to maintain---------------------still looking!!!!!
john
I was being a smart ass!!! Every military vehicle in use has its downfalls.
As for Great Britain citizens not wanting to pay for the 1776 war--if they had known the vast resources of the future---they might have had a change of mind! Hind sight is just that --- looking at your big ass in the mirror and wondering what happened!!!!!!!! I would of course argue that the Iraq War and the War of Independance are two different situations. There were no other countries coming to our aid, nor has there ever been.
Yes, maybe the French fought with us, but not really---As usual.
I don't think the H1 or H2 or H3 are the perfect vehicles, but I will argue the 4 wheeling ability with anyone. I will take my H2 anywhere you want to take a pinz ( because I have ). It's not the ultimate 4x4, but I haven't found one yet---and I like vehicles more than most. Hell, I just would like to find something reliable, capable, and inexpensive to maintain---------------------still looking!!!!!
john
"Growing Old is Mandatory
Growing Up is Optional"
Growing Up is Optional"
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
John
With respect. Your "family fleet" is not ad hoc up armoured, your area of N Mexico is not Iraq and I would wager the frequency of use and duration of the fleet is nothing compared to what is being these vehicles (US Army Humvees) are being used for or indeed ever designed to do in the widest sense of the word.
In situations like, this business of maintenance and repair frequencies become more paramount as the fleet ages. Everyone on this forum has probably experienced some form of failure due to increased recreational use of their Pinzgauer. In a wider sense commercial fleet operators expect and do experience increased downtime and stranding due to mechanical failures. In combat conditions I would imagine the maintenance of a fleet of HumVees would be a nightmare. Certainly it was relayed to me as such.
On a point, no matter what the conflict by the way,when you are defeated the plain fact is you are defeated! In any case making war is expensive on the population as a whole. Circumstances and mistakes are easy to see and observe with hindsight for sure. I am positive both those "Mad King Georges" have contemplated that issue although one cannot be contacted as he resides in Westminster Abbey I believe.
Dennis
With respect. Your "family fleet" is not ad hoc up armoured, your area of N Mexico is not Iraq and I would wager the frequency of use and duration of the fleet is nothing compared to what is being these vehicles (US Army Humvees) are being used for or indeed ever designed to do in the widest sense of the word.
In situations like, this business of maintenance and repair frequencies become more paramount as the fleet ages. Everyone on this forum has probably experienced some form of failure due to increased recreational use of their Pinzgauer. In a wider sense commercial fleet operators expect and do experience increased downtime and stranding due to mechanical failures. In combat conditions I would imagine the maintenance of a fleet of HumVees would be a nightmare. Certainly it was relayed to me as such.
On a point, no matter what the conflict by the way,when you are defeated the plain fact is you are defeated! In any case making war is expensive on the population as a whole. Circumstances and mistakes are easy to see and observe with hindsight for sure. I am positive both those "Mad King Georges" have contemplated that issue although one cannot be contacted as he resides in Westminster Abbey I believe.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
H2's and pinzies on the same trail?
that would be a cool trip!
most of my friends know that I'm not a fan of the H2 or H3, but I would like to see them on the trail. In particular, I would like to see one on steel bender, or better yet, the spike in moab.
most of my friends know that I'm not a fan of the H2 or H3, but I would like to see them on the trail. In particular, I would like to see one on steel bender, or better yet, the spike in moab.
-
springhill
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: New Mexico
Moab looks like a fun place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmaNeNZE ... ed&search=
Another good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC_wARCR18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmaNeNZE ... ed&search=
Another good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC_wARCR18
"Growing Old is Mandatory
Growing Up is Optional"
Growing Up is Optional"
actually when it comes to the H series I like this video. It really shows their capabilities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZAEz1lqsy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZAEz1lqsy4
Mike
Wounder if this would have happened to the hummer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nAkIS3ycwc
I gotta say I don't know of too many trails around that my Rubicon won't seriously spank any stock H2. Now the H1 is only limited by it's size (width) on where it can go.springhill wrote:Moab looks like a fun place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmaNeNZE ... ed&search=
Another good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC_wARCR18
1973 712M
Re: 85w90
Just bought some of this today. Plan on using it in all the assemblies (except motor of course). Says it's rated as GL4 and GL5.Steve wrote:NAPA tells me that the Sta-Lube (SL24239) is an 85w90. Will that work in the transmission (gearbox) without any problems, or it this too heavy a grade?
Thanks,
Steve
1973 712M
Gear oil
Todd, it's your money but you are changing out probably at least 100 bucks in synthetic oils that are like less than 6 months old. StaLube will work fine of course but unless you are super bored you are wasting money. I know sometimes you just gotta do it yourself. By the way, all the hydraulics were flushed last fall too. 
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Gents
As a point, the following are a few Brit blokes "playing in the woods", not the British Army/Marines competing in the Neptune trophy. That's something much more difficult and professional. (The HumVee 1 failed miserably by the way on several occasions on that little "reparti".)
Take a look at these and determine if a Hummer 1 (Maybe) "Two or three" (no way!) can handle this abuse.
What did I state; "When the posin' is over" "There's only Landrover"- Oh and Pinzgauer!
Rule Brittannia, God save the Queen!
By the way didn't you know that the meek shalt inherite the world!--If that's ok with you chaps!
Ha ha!
Dennis
ps don't get too offended just a bit of fun now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSbefGi ... ed&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeO ... ed&search=
As a point, the following are a few Brit blokes "playing in the woods", not the British Army/Marines competing in the Neptune trophy. That's something much more difficult and professional. (The HumVee 1 failed miserably by the way on several occasions on that little "reparti".)
Take a look at these and determine if a Hummer 1 (Maybe) "Two or three" (no way!) can handle this abuse.
What did I state; "When the posin' is over" "There's only Landrover"- Oh and Pinzgauer!
Rule Brittannia, God save the Queen!
By the way didn't you know that the meek shalt inherite the world!--If that's ok with you chaps!
Ha ha!
Dennis
ps don't get too offended just a bit of fun now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSbefGi ... ed&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeO ... ed&search=
OOOps no customer bashing now
Re: Gear oil
Not gonna mess with the hydraulics right now. I have several "weeps" and needed to add fluid. Wasn't sure exactly what was in there. Figured I'ld just put in new.75pinz wrote:Todd, it's your money but you are changing out probably at least 100 bucks in synthetic oils that are like less than 6 months old. StaLube will work fine of course but unless you are super bored you are wasting money. I know sometimes you just gotta do it yourself. By the way, all the hydraulics were flushed last fall too.
I know synthetics are great and all, but with a machine this age, I'm just concerned about those "weeps" and the seals getting worse and allowing more out.
1973 712M
-
springhill
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: New Mexico
Dennis,
Very impressive. I would put a LR Defender against most anything. Especially one set up for deep water. I almost bought a defender 110 about 3 years ago. It would have cost a bit more than the H2, but the interior would not have cost as much to replace.
I tried a deep water crossing with the first pinz we bought. It didn't make it very far. The bottom cushions on the seats were under water, plus I had some friends in the back that weren't very happy with me. The plus side was that we had it running again in a couple of hours. The down side was a new tranny ( $5000 ) ---We drained the oil and replaced it, but one year later the tranny failed---I will assume it was due to the H20. This was on a 710, not the recent tranny failure on the 712. By the way, I love the pinzgauers, but certain parts are expensive. As far as pinz experience goes, I have probably put more offroad miles than most on the 3 pinz's that the ranch owns. They never see a paved road.
The videos I posted show that the H2 is no hiway queen. I will admit that it will not tread as deep in the water as the LR video, but neither will any stock vehicle, including Land Rover. The rock crawling H2 was impressive to me. I have had my pinzgauers in steep situations that were not even close to the video, and I was nervous--mainly due to drum brakes and not so low gearing. I do not like to go backwards--sideways--down a steep incline. I have even had the rear end off the ground going down a canyon road that my chevy pickup had no problem going down. It will make you grab a little harder on the steering wheel when riding on the 2 front wheels. I'm not bashing any 4x4, but I know the H2 is more capable than most people give it credit for. If the video is too unbelievable, bring your 4x4 down and we will go four wheeling. I'm not afraid to follow you anywhere you want to go. Its only money after all!!! That includes stock jeeps ( rubicon included- front locker is an advantage ). My H2 is stock except for the tires.
The problem with most youtube videos of H2's is that the driver doesn't have any off the hiway experience. I do.
If we both get stuck, we can use the unimog as a recovery vehicle.
john
Very impressive. I would put a LR Defender against most anything. Especially one set up for deep water. I almost bought a defender 110 about 3 years ago. It would have cost a bit more than the H2, but the interior would not have cost as much to replace.
I tried a deep water crossing with the first pinz we bought. It didn't make it very far. The bottom cushions on the seats were under water, plus I had some friends in the back that weren't very happy with me. The plus side was that we had it running again in a couple of hours. The down side was a new tranny ( $5000 ) ---We drained the oil and replaced it, but one year later the tranny failed---I will assume it was due to the H20. This was on a 710, not the recent tranny failure on the 712. By the way, I love the pinzgauers, but certain parts are expensive. As far as pinz experience goes, I have probably put more offroad miles than most on the 3 pinz's that the ranch owns. They never see a paved road.
The videos I posted show that the H2 is no hiway queen. I will admit that it will not tread as deep in the water as the LR video, but neither will any stock vehicle, including Land Rover. The rock crawling H2 was impressive to me. I have had my pinzgauers in steep situations that were not even close to the video, and I was nervous--mainly due to drum brakes and not so low gearing. I do not like to go backwards--sideways--down a steep incline. I have even had the rear end off the ground going down a canyon road that my chevy pickup had no problem going down. It will make you grab a little harder on the steering wheel when riding on the 2 front wheels. I'm not bashing any 4x4, but I know the H2 is more capable than most people give it credit for. If the video is too unbelievable, bring your 4x4 down and we will go four wheeling. I'm not afraid to follow you anywhere you want to go. Its only money after all!!! That includes stock jeeps ( rubicon included- front locker is an advantage ). My H2 is stock except for the tires.
The problem with most youtube videos of H2's is that the driver doesn't have any off the hiway experience. I do.
If we both get stuck, we can use the unimog as a recovery vehicle.
john
"Growing Old is Mandatory
Growing Up is Optional"
Growing Up is Optional"