Fuel for Pinz

[krick3tt]

The mog I had ran on the crappiest gas I could find. The pinz seems ro run well? on regular gas. Is it safe (read, smart) to use ethanol in the pinz?
I know it is not a FFV vehicle, but in a pinch, if that is all I could find, should I? I don't want to screw this up.

Morris,
710M

[Charles]

Hi,
I've done a ton of work on this and can give you some tips if you want em.
Expect to get a lot of ribbing around here for wanting to burn e-85. I did

Anyhoo, it's pretty straight forward, but your Pinz will not burn e-85 "out of the box". The compression is just too low...

Basically the mods involve:
0) Jetting / fuel delivery (this is most critical)
1) Heat
2) Timing advance
3) Spark gap
4) Replacing ethanol sensitive parts (fuel lines, etc)

Otherwise, if your going to experiment:
Drive it empty.
Only put in a SMALL amount of e-85 (like 1/16 tank) and see what happens. Then if it sputters (like mine did) you can at least fill up on reg and be OK.

Anyway, long stort short: I've got quite a bit of trial and error I can share with you so you don't have to go through everything from scratch.

Flame on guys!

[krick3tt]

Thanks Charles.

I really do not want to experiment.
I really like my pinz the way it is...and try to take care of it as best as I can.

...so, in the final analysis...Don't do that. I can live with that.

Although, someday maybe the fuel injection may be my direction but I have a lot to learn about this vehicle first, before I start making it something it is not.

That is why I ask questions of people that really know things on this forum.

Cheers,
Morris

[Kiwibru]

Charles, no flames from here! I can appreciate the response you gave and think it is a valuable bit of info. to have given. The move to alternative fuels is on and those individuals who mark the trail for those to follow have an important roll in the process. I burn lots of biodiesel and had to make a major compromise when I bought my Pinz, gas engine and all! Guess you can't have everything.
Regards

[Charles]

Hey there,
Yeah, I burn straight ethanol in my little-crappy Honda. I have burned e-85 successfully in my Pinz doing the stuff I said above. It's not super simple, but it's not more than a weekend project once you know what to do.

There is a great book on converting air-cooled VW's to straight ethanol that is a great source of information for "converting" (tweaking really) the Pinz... http://terrasol.home.igc.org/alky/alky.htm

Also, also, I think I'll sign up for the fuel injection option that Expedition / Raby is offering. That'll let me tweak even more easily (no boring out jets etc)...

Seeya!

[Heed]

Sorry to take this away from the Ethanol direction...but what about a higher octaner than the typical regular unleaded?

My 710 is not a daily driver. As such, it gets babied with 94 octane. Might I actually be doing more harm than good using a higher octane than what it would have gotten during it's service life?

Thanks,
Bob

[Charles]

Hey Bob,
No damage from the gas, but I notice my Pinz actually liked the "cheap stuff" better. Higher octane = longer/cleaner burn.

I did quite a lot of mileage calcs and actually got better mileage (ever so slightly) on cheap stuff. I should repeat that with a small timing advance and see what I get on the good stuff.

[kc4mne]

What kind of mileage do you get from your 710K ?

[william curry]

I avoid using ethanol in my Pinz, and any other car of mine for the following reasons.

1) The Pinz has a ventilated gas tank and ethanol absorbs water. Hence you are going to get water in your tank which will foul or stall your engine.

2) Most all of the gas stations are required to have fiberglass fuel storage tanks. Fiberglass resin dissolves in ethanol, so you are therefore putting epoxy resins through your fuel system.

While the dissolved resin factor is probably not a big factor with a Pinz and the stone age carburetor system, just think about what the resins can do to a fuel injection system.

3) Ethanol will also dissolve gunk in your gas tank and then pass it down the line to the fuel injector system. Then your fuel injector system will look like it was dipped in tar and your motor will run just like it had a fuel system that was filled with tar. I speak from experience.

Use ethanol at your own risk!

[Tony]

[quote="kc4mne"]What kind of mileage do you get from your 710K ?[/quote]

This is a good topic!

I used to have a girlfriend called KoKo K. I got a lot of mileage from her, and she got just about 710 k from me. The final settlement is being worked out between my lawyers, and a guy named Nick who represents KoKo.

What I didn't realize at the time was that not only was KoKo a charming companion with a dazzling personality, but she was also photographer.

[Twin Pinzies]

Sorry to take this away from the Ethanol direction...but what about a higher octaner than the typical regular unleaded?

My 710 is not a daily driver. As such, it gets babied with 94 octane. Might I actually be doing more harm than good using a higher octane than what it would have gotten during it's service life?

Thanks,
Bob

Putting premium gas into your truck is not a "treat" for it. Anything above what's reccomended (85) is a waste. Unlike when you eat organic health food, your pinz won't live a longer, happier life...But you will!
Some still think that expensive gas is like healthfood for your car, It isn't!

[Jim LaGuardia]

Premium burns cooler
You can run the timing around 10 deg btdc without pinging with premium.

[Charles]

Hi Jim,
Yup. Like I said above, same goes for e-85 (it's 108 octane). It burns cooler and LONGER, which is why you can (need) to advance your timing to take advantage of it.

So, to answer a question above, I get about 12 mpg on e-85 and about 14 on 85 octane dead-dino.

Also, some good points here. Though I'm not too worried about ethanol and moisture. Ethanol is hydrophilic, but not terribly so (like methanol or glycerine). While I don't recommend that you store your Pinz full of ethanol over winter, I don't stress about having 2-week old gas in there (I drive it frequently). Additionally, as for "gunk cleaning", yup, it'll strip wax's and tar from your tank/lines, but that is easy to take care of with a in-line filter that you can toss after about 6 weeks.

Anyhoo, enough on ethanol from me. I liked it, I burned it, and have no problem with it. I can pontificate/ myth-bust on my own dime later if anybody has interest...