Air Filter

chapel · Post by **chapel** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Does anyone run the K&N air filters? If so what # filter is it?
Thanks
Greg

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:32 pm

I am going to ruffle a few feathers here.

Leave that K&N filter where it belongs in a box, on a shelf, gathering dust for some other sucker to buy and have problems down the road.

Serious operators of vehicles (like truck/rail operators) use a paper elements like your Pinz for a set period and then bung it away and install another. The cyclonic filter with paper element was good then (1971) and is still good today.

The K&N is I suppose a great idea in theory, but like the old oil bath and gauze filters they take a great deal of maintenance dicipline to keep in optimum condition. We saw one (K&N equipped Pinz) the other day in for service with smooth running issues, or at least lack of it!
Throw it out and install a paper element was my directive, and on start up the problem was fixed.

I wish they could be that easy!

By the way
These things find their way into Landrovers et al as well with the same old promise of enhanced performance BS. Great from the onset but neglect (as most often happens) renders the filter useless, allows contaminants to enter the MAF sensor and throw check engine codes like fuel correction percentages out of whack or maf related faults. Not to mention what it is doing further down the pipe.

In short good for business i,e Scan charge $85, new genuine filter $16.10 labor plus sundries $100, plus tax. Lovely, thanks to K&N I have just increased my bottom line!
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc

chapel · Post by **chapel** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:09 pm

I know K&N filters are more work. The problem I am having is that with my stock filter and canister in place the engine idles very fast. (with a new filter) If I remove the end of the canister the engine idles normally but the intake noise is LOUD. If I put a piece of foam on the end with no cap it idles fast but not as fast and the noise is more tolerable. So I thought a K&N filter might eliminate the canister and the problems I am having. That said I've heard that the K&N's pass more dirt so proper maintenance is important.
Greg

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:24 am

Sounds like you may have a loose float bowl(try to wiggle the carb) , or worn throttle shafts.
Check for vacuum leaks, you may want to pull the front tin off the engine and inspect the intake manifold equalizing hose and clamps

chapel · Post by **chapel** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:32 pm

To me it seems that the air filter is restricted somehow and causing a higher pull on the gas side raising the idle. Also, my mileage is around 10mpg. I'll check for loosness and such.
Thanks
Greg

Lightningpinz · Post by **Lightningpinz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:29 pm

Yup, K & N is not plug and play and forget. Her is a couple of pics. Not great quality, but the build up of dirt on the end is indicative. You really can't see the massive quantity of bugs between the folds in the media

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/li ... ydirty.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/li ... dirty2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/li ... dirty3.jpg

Maintenance occasionally is needed. I saw a report the other day that stated the way K & N get such great flow results when they test is CONSTANT cleaning during the tests. It hinted that the cleaning was more then the usual done by owners. After getting dirty the performance dropped. In the Words of the world famous (Pinzgauer world anyway) TONY Caveat Emptor

dougj · Post by **dougj** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:39 am

In fact... I know that's half of moab there.. My Mountain bike has the other half on it.

chapel · Post by **chapel** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:45 pm

Cool thanks. What # filter is that?
Greg

Oberon · Post by **Oberon** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:33 am

If you are still looking for the # for the k&n filter it is E-9060. I just put one in my '74 pinz and have had no troubles. They do take a little maintenance but they are pretty easy to clean. Just follow the directions. Also, the k&n is not a direct fit. You need to put a hole in the end for the threads to stick through for the wing nut. Also, I put a 3" washer under the wing nut for support.
hope this helps,
Spence

Kiwibru · Post by **Kiwibru** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:43 pm

Depending upon the engine I have to admit I have used (and use) a K&N.
The farm truck which is an Isuzu NPR has had one for years. I maintain it, do Oil Analysis and have never seen a high Silicon reading indicating dirt is getting by. The NPR uses a Donaldson shell so a lot of the particulate matter is captured and held long before it gets to the actual element.
On the other hand any engine that uses a Mass Airflow Sensor will not do well because of the oil that can be problematic if the user over oils the filter. I killed the MAF in a VW TDI after 30k miles due to using a K&N and it was not even over oiled! That engine now uses a stock paper element with the winter fiber pre-filter for snow and moisture. For the Pinz I am going to stay with a good paper element as the miles will be on the low side annually and thus I should get long service intervals with that.

chapel · Post by **chapel** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:55 pm

Thanks for all your help. I'll go check it out.
Greg

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:11 am

Kiwibru has hit it on the head!

The filter is fine as we pointed out when cleaned regularly.

Certainly a Donaldson precleaner does most of the cleaning work in dusty conditions. In fact we use a Donaldson pre cleaner on our Diesel Mog conversion. This is employed in conjuction with a Landrover Classic air filter and housing combination due to its compact size attached to the outside of the cab. We have used a K&N in this application with positive results.

Yes contamination and oil deposits can run havock with a MAF sensor as our mutual experiences have shown.

Lastly and Yes, most Pinz owners don't do much in the way of annual mileage. For that reason the paper micronic original is by far the best especially where neglect is possible.
Dennis

hkmp5 · Post by **hkmp5** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:40 am

Here is my $0.02 as the design/manufacturer of the OEM air induction system. The Pinz system is designed with a dust holding capacity of ~8000 grams at a 25 Mbar pressure increase. In the AIS design world this is a HUGE amount of dust as it was designed for long service interval being driven in the worst of conditions. As a comparison, most of the automotive applications we design typically have a dust holding capacity between 120g and 300g with a change interval of ~30,000 miles. In the real world testing we have done on street vehicles in the U.S. you only use a small percentage of this capacity (EU results show slightly higher).

The bottom line is that for most of us who drive 50% on and 50% off road the OEM MANN paper filter is a lifetime part. Personally, if I spend a day driving off road behind another vehicle in dusty conditions then I simply dump out the pre-separator and never think twice about the filter. Remember also that the efficiency is just starting to get good (99.7%) when most discard the paper element.

So don't burden yourself with the initial K&N cost and maintenance, simply dump the pre-separator dish when necessary and enjoy driving your Pinz knowing the engine is well protected with the OEM system!

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,

- Stu Miller
Manager, Design & Development
MANN+HUMMEL USA
phone: 269-329-3944
fax: 269-329-5005
email: Stuart.Miller@mann-hummel.com

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