EFI

texas pinzgauer · Post by **texas pinzgauer** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:09 pm

I've lost track of all of the posts so let me ask the question(s) here and now.

Is there a turn key, ready to go, easy to install, cost effective EFI product available for the Pinzgauer?

Can my "mom & pop" shop down the street install it?

What are the benefits to installing it?

75pinz · Post by **75pinz** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:26 pm

Jim Laguardia has something, not exactly turn key but I bet you could fly him in to install it. The other guy in Georgia hasn't finished that one as far as I know. If I were you I would fix your carbs or buy Jim's as the other one has been years in the making.

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:15 pm

As 75pinz has said, if the carbs can be fixed then fix them. I have never had an issue with good working carbs off road. I would venture to say that I ask as much from my pinz offroad as it will give and the carbs work fine. I do a lot of highway driving also and don't see any real carb problems. I of course don't have a comparison basis against the EFI. I have seen some carbs that are just not worth the effort to fix and that is when something lilke Jims EFI system would be great. Yes you do need to bone up on EFI if you install it but I would imagine it is worth the time.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:58 pm

Well i guess i well put my two cents in. I was going to stay out of it because i thaught jim or jake would respond. but i guess jake is bussy with working on VW stuff because they are not as cheap as use pinz owners

I wounder how many VW there are in the U.S.? Mike i don't agree with you for couple of reasons. From what i can tell carbs do not take weather change very well in the morning if it is bellow freezing carbs seem to pop on the pinz unit the weather warms up or the pinz. if it is cooled all day they pop all day unless you mess with them. also carbs do have a problems with incline thats why the made the bowl bigger.One more thing like JIM has Posted many times is that EFI does not have the unburnt fuel smell in the cab. I really thaught this tread would be the start of something good but i guess the VW is more important and JIm still has the wave's of his last trip on he's mind ( hay man let's park her those wave's look killer)

. Texas like i pm'd you jim is your only option but the programming is the problem.( i only have one car now with Efi on regular gas the wifes car none of which have one carb one has twelve they all suck in my book)

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:18 pm

Erik
That is where you actually agree with me. If you have the smell of raw gas in the cab then the carbs are not working properly. If they are not working properly in cold weather again something is wrong. The carbs were made to work in the angles the pinz will handle with no major issues, I think I have enough vids to prove that.
I do hear lots of complaints and concerns about raw gas smell in the cab from some owners. I have to wonder why they don't address the issue and be done with it. Neither of my pinzies have this smell as they are kept up with and currently working properly. If the shafts become so worn as to allow raw gas out or the carb bases become loose or the carbs are so far out of adjustment that the smell becomes present either fix or replace them, this is not the norm of good functioning carbs. I am sure that in time the only option will be the EFI but still don't see the performance enhancement to justify the cost and time to learn (in my case) a new system. I guess I just have a thing for the old school way, simple and easy to keep running in the back country.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:29 pm

Mike i am talking burnt fuel. i have not ever smelt raw fuel but burnt fuel is commin. as i drive down the road. from what i can tell most say it is burning rich but even after tuning i smell it. the last time my dad was in the pinz in the back with the back open.he made the comment it was like riding in the deuce. you were high before you got were you needed to be.Learning would not be just you i bet it is 90% of the pinz crowd if not they are lying or just won't say so.

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:09 pm

I had an exhaust smell in my 712 but that was taken care of when I installed the yakima rack on the roof. Just before I installed the rack I was doing some prototype work on a spoiler. I made a very easy to install but very crude unit which worked extremely well. If you think back to the early years of the Chevy Suburban and the spoiler they had on it, the one I made was similar. With a little experimenting I found a shape and size that stopped the canvas from being sucked inwards. When I first started I had one of my smoking buddies (found a good use for them) blow smoke backwards into the rear area. The smoke immediately came forward. After the spoiler was complete the smoke just sort of hung in the air. This was all done at 80kph. My original thinking was to eliminate the buildup of exhaust from behind the truck and the infiltration into the rear area. Worked really well just did not need to pursue it to final build. Of course this all worked much better when the sides were down. Today I get no complaints from the rear passengers about the exhaust smell (at least caused by the truck). My 710 has been in pickup form almost ever since I got it so I never notice any sort of exhaust smell, back of cab canvas down.
I guess when it all comes down to it I don't see how EFI would eliminate exhaust from the truck, might make it cleaner in differing climates. Can't even imagine what the back of the truck must smell like with a diesel installed, unless it was running on used veggie oil.

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:34 am

Erik, I've been busy putting together a 2.66L and 2 Pinz in boxes(1 4x4, and 1 6x6) as well as keeping Dave's fleet running(Mighty Mite, Vampire, and next the TD). Also trying to get a scrap Haffy carcass apart .
My EFI components are compatible with any injection computer, no cam sensor needed unless you want sequential injection. As for turn key, if you use a Stinger or 8860, I can provide running maps that may need slight adjustments. Cold start is no problem and fully adjustable with most computers, systems can also run in closed loop with a wideband O2 sensor. I'm sure Jakes SDS computer would also work fine, but it seems he's not interested in offering it seperately.
Batchfire milage is 12-14mpg with only 2 hrs dyno time and 6-10 hrs of drive and tweak, but it runs soo much better. Just a side note, I drive 65-70 mph on the freeway for my milage testing and milage does increase at 55-60 to 13-16 mpg.
Well, I'm tired and have to go up the mountain tommorrow morning to service a truck then come home and get back on this 6x6 engine

If you have more questions just post them and I'll get to them as I check the board.

JaffaPinz · Post by **JaffaPinz** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:53 pm

Anyone heard of mechanical FI types that can be retrofitted? I am not a fan of complex electronics on a vehicle and engine meant for the wide open and vacant spaces.

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:26 pm

One of our members has put a mechanical FI on a Volvo c304. A few more bugs to work out and it will be in some of the photos. Very clean radio truck that is being turned into a camper.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:02 pm

not sure there would be any advantage to it verse carbs. Efi seems pretty reliable from what I can tell on modern cars the common failure is the o2 sensor even the car will still run.

Profpinz · Post by **Profpinz** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:08 am

Anyone heard of mechanical FI types that can be retrofitted?

The SDP factory played around with Bosch K Jetronic FI.
(the units were called 715 E)

MASSIVE PINZ · Post by **MASSIVE PINZ** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:08 pm

First off,
The Pinz developments have been and always will be a sideline for myself and my company. When I bought a Pinz and started doing things to it I soon learned that the following would not support my general level of development and thats a shame..

My time recently has been spread across working on projects you'll be reading about in popular mechanics in a few months all the way thropugh shooting an instructional video series. Between times find a day or two to take the 914 to the track (two wins this weekend) and try to have some sort of general "life".

BUT I am still following through with the EFI development and kit production.

I now have 22,000 miles on my Pinz with the developments employed and have seen over 50 hours of lab time with another, bone stock Pinz engine. I have 98% of all the gripes worked out of the system and tuning has been completed from 15*F up to just over 100F. Cold start parameters are pre set and manifold pressure tuning values are set up to 4,000' elevation and as low as 300' above sea level.

I have fuel maps for 87, 89 and 93 octane fuel as well.

This has taken way too long to get to the level that it is at now, however thuis time has been required to offer a bolt on system with all the major tuning and guesswork completed.

During the development SDS looked to my lab to test a new "smoothing" chip that would allow fuel values to be as far as 25% off and allow the computer to maintain the pre-set AFR that I found best during testing of the Pinz system. This slowed things down as all the dyno work was complete and I had to employ the altered chip into the truck once the system was re-installed. I have been happy with the results of the upgrade as it was the first time it was ever used in a vehicle with the SDS system.

The chip alteration will be hugely beneficial to the tuners of the FI arrangement since it will allow some mis-tuning to be overlooked by the ECU when the system is ran in closed loop and will be especially beneficial when under heavy load in lower gears crawling as it will maintain AFR despite throttle position changes.

The EFI has offered much better drive ability, throttle response and overall performance. The fuel smell in the cab was eliminated from my 710.

The truck can now cruise at 120 Km/Hr and be at 3/4 throttle with a bone stock 2.5. I climb hills in 5th gear that needed 4th gear with carbs and no more fussy distributoprs to screw with since direct ignition is employed using modern GM components that can be bought anywhere, allowing total adjustability of not just the fuel, but also ignition curves with the hand held programmer.

At this stage I now have data logs from field testing, data logs and imperical informatuion from lab testing and have a very capable fully functional version running in my truck that will fire up at any temperature down to 15F. I only need to work out the minor details of packaging the systems, some bracketry and an easier way to tap into the fuel tank for the return.

Purchasers of the FI can expect a call from me this Thursday with final details. I am finally at 98% and finally happy with what we have created.

Thomas-E · Post by **Thomas-E** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:57 pm

Has anybody heard from Jake?

mjnims · Post by **mjnims** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Its not Thursday yet

THE PORTAL HUB - Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvo 303s and more!

EFI - is it really available now?

EFI - is it really available now?

EFI Ready?