Newbie wants a 712

[Modelmakerman]

Firstly Id like to say hi, love the forum, loads of information. Ive been searching and reading for some time now but Ive finally built up the courage to ask some questions.

It would seem Ive come down with a strange illness over the last few years, the symptoms started when someone posted a video of a Pinz on one of the 4x4 forums I frequent and since then all I can think about is Pinzgauers. Ive persuaded myself that I dont just want a Pinz I NEED one! From extensive research into this mysterious illness I have come to the conclusion that there is no cure, the only form of medication is to bite the bullet and buy an Pinzgauer. Having read a lot of the threads on this forum I can now see I am not the only one with this illness!

At the minute I own a SWB 70 series Toyota LandCruiser which over the last few years Ive made a few modifications to to turn what was already a good 4x4 into a great little offroader without making it terrible on the road. As much as I love the LandCruiser, my hobbies and what I use it for has changed over the last couple of years and it is now less than practical for my needs.

So what I need is a vehicle:

Capable of taking me almost anywhere regardless of terrain (obviously within reason)
Big enough to carry people and kit (Im a Scout Leader)
Capable of carrying my boats (Canoes and Kayaks) and bikes
Decent for Towing
A base vehicle for a basic camper conversion (think somewhere between surf van and a trailer tent style layout).
No more expensive to run than the LandCruiser

Im thinking a 712 would suit my needs but the question is which one? I dont want an Amb as Im not bothered about headroom and Im not a fan of the boxy look so its between the K or an M with a Hardtop (Pinzmeister?)? Also I would be looking for a 1972 model as these are Tax exempt over here, Im guessing they are pretty rare to find in decent condition?

Whatever I end up with I plan to strip it and rebuild it right from the beginning:

- I dont mind only being able to do 60mph on the highway as thats what I usually do in the LandCruiser anyway (otherwise I can watch the fuel gauge going down!) but Ive heard fitting a transfer box from a 710 makes it little easier to keep up on the highway, how detrimental is this to the Low range and are there any other problems from fitting one to a 712.
- An LPG conversion is a must to make it affordable to run but is there anywhere I could install the tank that doenst take up loads of space inside?
- EFI looks like a good investment too where can I get kits from, how much and are they reliable
- 2.7 or Forced induction? Ive heard good things about the 2.7L conversions but has anyone added a turbo or supercharger to the 2.5L (Im assuming standard 2.5L would be better for forced induction due to higher compression?)
- Sound & Thermal insulation; While Ive got it stripped out and after Ive addressed any rust/bodywork issues I want to sound deaden and insulate the inside to make it as comfortable as possible. If I am going to be carrying kids (Scouts) and sleeping in it (Not with Scouts! ) I want to make it as comfortable as possible. I realize they are cold noisy beasts and I can live with that but Id like to make it as good as I possibly can. Anyone manage to do this to good effect and did it cost the earth in insulation materials?

I think thats more than enough to get started with. Sorry for the essay of a first post and all the questions.

Dave

[pinzmeister-uk]

PM sent

[Jimm391730]

Capable of taking me almost anywhere regardless of terrain (obviously within reason)
Big enough to carry people and kit (Im a Scout Leader) Then you want an M, they have more seats.
Capable of carrying my boats (Canoes and Kayaks) and bikes You will want a K for this, or a custom rack for an M.
Decent for Towing Well, any Pinz is capable of towing a fair amount of weight, but it won't do it quickly!
A base vehicle for a basic camper conversion (think somewhere between surf van and a trailer tent style layout). An M seats fold flat, makes a perfect place to sleep. I can fit a queen sized airmattress easily in a 710M.
No more expensive to run than the LandCruiser

Im thinking a 712 would suit my needs but the question is which one? I dont want an Amb as Im not bothered about headroom and Im not a fan of the boxy look so its between the K or an M with a Hardtop (Pinzmeister?)? Also I would be looking for a 1972 model as these are Tax exempt over here, Im guessing they are pretty rare to find in decent condition?

Whatever I end up with I plan to strip it and rebuild it right from the beginning:

- I dont mind only being able to do 60mph on the highway as thats what I usually do in the LandCruiser anyway (otherwise I can watch the fuel gauge going down!) but Ive heard fitting a transfer box from a 710 makes it little easier to keep up on the highway, how detrimental is this to the Low range and are there any other problems from fitting one to a 712. You will gain 12% in speed with the 710 Xfer case; a TD tranny ($$$) will gain you ~25%. That's too much - I have one, but both hurt crawling proportionally. You kinda have to choose your poison - slower, but very trail rated, or fast and not as off road capable (but still very good for all but the slowest of going). Fast is a relative term, 87 - 100HP won't get you "fast" regardless of the ratios; that's why the TD tranny is generally too much. I would take it out except Jim's 2.7l conversion just makes it work.
- An LPG conversion is a must to make it affordable to run but is there anywhere I could install the tank that doenst take up loads of space inside?
- EFI looks like a good investment too where can I get kits from, how much and are they reliable CAn be very reliable, but well maintained carbs work just as well. Again, I have both.
- 2.7 or Forced induction? Ive heard good things about the 2.7L conversions but has anyone added a turbo or supercharger to the 2.5L (Im assuming standard 2.5L would be better for forced induction due to higher compression?) Jim LaGuardia's 2.7l build includes slightly higher than stock compression pistons and improved cam grind. I've never seen a forced induction Pinz motor.
- Sound & Thermal insulation; While Ive got it stripped out and after Ive addressed any rust/bodywork issues I want to sound deaden and insulate the inside to make it as comfortable as possible. If I am going to be carrying kids (Scouts) and sleeping in it (Not with Scouts! ) I want to make it as comfortable as possible. I realize they are cold noisy beasts and I can live with that but Id like to make it as good as I possibly can. Anyone manage to do this to good effect and did it cost the earth in insulation materials? Good luck.

[Modelmakerman]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Im not too worried about what seats/how many are in them as standard as I will be stripping it I can build in whatever configuration of seat I feel I need, also not sure about the laws/regulations on carrying kids in side facing seats etc.

I think Im more drawn towards the K due to the extra doors with lower steps (easier access for kids and my 94 yr old grandmother!) but Im guessing that causes problems with fitting an LPG tank underneath? Any possibility of removing one door (and the step) on the K or fitting one side door (and step) to an M with fibreglass top?

In general I dont tow a lot but I need to be able to tow a random assortment of trailers (generally Canoe/Kayak trailers) as and when required would the 24v be an issue for this or is it easy enough to fit a 12v trailer socket?

Looks like a 710 transfer would be a good idea, I dont do any rock crawling (there isnt really anywhere like that in the UK) so the low ratio doesnt need to be crazy low.

Ill be honest Ive done my time fiddling with carbs and I found the constant adjustment tedious so EFI definitely sounds like a good call. Is it pretty much fit and forget?

2.7L build seems to be the way to go, especially if it raises the stock compression ratio. Might have to be the first to have a go at forced induction. I like the idea of a small supercharger though I doubt the pinz engine could take much more than 5psi? Might have to have a chat with Jim a some point then.

Other than the obvious (hard body, side doors and interior layout) are there any major differences between the M and K 712?

[psychoman]

I'm selling my 712M at the moment - see classified ads and lots of pictures on Milweb. Could be interested in a PEX on the cruiser too

PM me if you want to explore this?

Cheers

Dave S

[crcpinz]

The K is a lot harder to find and therefore $$$$$. I'd look for an M, and wouldn't modify it. Then again, everyone's needs are different, but the M is more versatile, a true utility vehicle.

[krick3tt]

Your 94 year young grandmother rides in your pinz....way to go Granny !!!

[Modelmakerman]

Your 94 year young grandmother rides in your pinz....way to go Granny !!!

Not yet she doesnt, I dont have one yet but she has been in the LandCruiser and that has 33" Tyres and and 3" suspension lift!

[mopar]

I'm selling my 712M at the moment - see classified ads and lots of pictures on Milweb.

Thats a nice looking Pinzgauer

[psychoman]

Cheers mate - its a good truck - but for my next project I need something a little bigger...

Hopefully I will find a good new owner for her.

[ScottishPinz]

The Pinz bug....

Have you looked at / sat in / measured up a Pinzgauer??

Not wanting to put a damper on anything but... the 712M does not adapt easily to forward facing seats and carrying more than 9 passengers puts you in a different driving license class(class D if I remember correctly)

Finding a 1972 712K may be harder than wining the lottery and it will still only seat 5.

A 712 will not easily cruise at 60mph at all, not even 55mph, maybe 50mph, my 710K will manage 55ish and it runs real quiet by Pinzgauer standards.

I fear you may ultimately want a Pinzgauer to be something it is not. No amount of sound deadening, tuning and chopping will make it a fast civilized vehicle

It will carry 10 children, but not in a fashion that is safe for modern road use.

It will tow most anything (I've pulled a 30 tonne lorry with mine) but not at normal modern road speeds or with braking that can really cope.

It can be a good base for a camper but then you'll loose the open carrying capacity.

I love my Pinzgauer and it does what I want it too fantastically, but if I had your wish list it would not be a Pinzgauer I lusted after

http://www.pinzgauer.4x4man.com

[Modelmakerman]

You may be right, Ive only ever seen one pinz in the flesh and that was a 710 and I didnt get a good look at it really. Most of the info I have aquired is from the web (You Tube vids, pinz websites and this forum) . I would like to have a good look at and sit in/ride in a 712 before I take the plunge anyone know of any owners near my part of the world?

[Dreadnought]

You could have come and looked at mine...I was in Swindon until I moved to Poland. Don,t be put off by people saying that the brakes are not good...they are when properly set up....but a 710K is nose heavy, when you load it you need to load the back end with the heaviest stuff. Some people who know that they will not carry the full weight even go so far as to remove one of the double rear springs to no ill effect except to level the nose down attitude.

[krick3tt]

I was not conscious of the nose down effect when I measured the height of the pinz. I checked the front,
not realizing that the back was 'a bit higher' and ripped off the center strap holding the top on at the back
putting it in my garage.
I have since installed smaller tires, similar to the originals, and have now considerable clearance (1/2 inch)
to clear the header. Live and learn. I tried to load the rear with bags of concrete but, it did not take it down
enough, those springs are strong.
My neighbor suggested letting air out of the tires but, that is tiresome (no pun intended) after awhile.

[David Dunn]

"nose down effect" is typical of any load carrying vehicle ( except those with compensating suspensions).
But Dreadnought's Pinz is not stock and has a heavier diesel in the front. It is bad on his part to make observation based on his and apply them to other Pinzes.
Apples and oranges