need help pricing a 712M

[dancni6]

I am looking at a Pinz that has been modified by adding the center section of a 712K into the 712M body. This gives the 712M two rear doors behind the front cabin. The current owner has had this vehicle for several years. Because the modification was done poorly quite a bit of rust developed between the seams of the K and the M models that had been pieced together. This spread into the panels of the vehicle. The owner has told me (and shown me) that the rust has been removed and the rust eaten sections of the Pinz's panel have been repaired with Bondo and repainted. To me it appears to be a good job, that is still in progress. There is more to do and the pictures I have attached are in the middle of the body work job.

The soft top is made of a boat cover (rubber type) material that is a little worn out. There are several holes throughout the soft top in the rear cabin of the Pinz. The soft top will need to be patched or replaced. It was custom made for the current owner and it uses grommet style attachments, instead of the stock hooks and cord system. All but one of the rear seats have been corroded by rust and are now unusable. There is an electric push-button starter modification. There are four outdoor style speakers installed and an am/fm radio. The owner's mechanic has told me that the carburetors have been rebuilt and the rear axle boots have been replaced.

I want a 712M that will be rock solid off road with great ground clearance. I like the way they look but I'm novice in the differences in these vehicles and how to value them. Any advice on the fair market value of this vehicle?

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

This is always a tough call to make when you are dealing with a lot of non-standard/non-original issues. Like usual, it needs to be looked at in person if possible, and preferably by someone who knows what they are looking at.

My opinion is to be extra skeptical about anything having to do with this Pinz. The state of the truck and the tastes of the previous owners are really questionable and I've found this is a good indicator (in general) of hidden problems. From the hanging wires, the awful top, the rust and the worst choice of tires I've ever seen on a Pinz, I bet this will need extra work. And what is that air-tank looking thing hanging down like some old hemorrhoid under the rear end? The $19.95 tail lights and the jerrycan hanging down low enough to get smashed off-road doesn't help the impression either.

I noticed the interior has that "exposed" look to it as well. You see that on 4x4's that were left outside with the top off. It looks like it's been rained on and sun-baked. Could just be body shop dust and dirt but I bet not.

The area around those mid-doors needs to be inspected very carefully, and with a screwdriver or ice-pick. If rust was eating the "joint", you may have a real mess on your hands. If someone didn't cut every piece of rust out and properly weld in all new steel, you'd be screwed. If the seats were rusted that badly, it makes me wonder how much that spread. Rust isn't likely to just sit in one spot; it spreads like a virus.

Oh and Bondo is not a repair product. It's only useful for smoothing small imperfections in metal bodywork to make paint look good.

My feeling is that you should stay away from this thing. It may actually be best for parts. I could be completely wrong but that's my gut feeling.

[NEWFISHER]

Have it inspected at a body shop and get an estimate to repair it correctly and refinished. Whats a good condition one worth? Lets say " X$" now take the estimate, subtract it from X$ and this is what its worth. Thats a good starting point and work backwards based on mechanical condition and repairs needed. Anything more and you are buying with emotion.

[David Dunn]

I'd be VERY leery of that project. The true "K" platform has added reinforcement to structurally retain the integrity of the platform. If they were shoddy on adding the footwells and door frames, I doubt they added the reinforcement.
Read this thread on Prof Pinz's conversion of a 718M to a 718K. Especially notice the attention to details.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8355

Without more details on this truck, my first impression is that the mid section will buckle and twist the 1st time offroad. Pinz's central tubes twist normally , and I can envision this one taking the body with it.

If you want a 712M, buy one. This has to be real cheap before I'd even think about it.

PS, add a location to where you're at. it helps when you have future questions or problems.

[Haf-e]

My guess on location is Hawaii...

[David Dunn]

That was my first thought.

imo, location should be mandatory here for all members. Geographical and environmental conditions have a lot to with maintaining these vehicles, and evaluating them.

[NEWFISHER]

Definitely on the Islands. My guess Hilo or North around Hawi on the Big island. background looks too tall for Mokakilo ridge on Oahu and too long for Maui?

[undysworld]

imo, location should be mandatory here for all members.

Gee Dave, you're reminding me of me. I totally agree. However. So far, Vince has not gone so far as to make this a requirement, at least the way I read it:

I'd like to ask any poster to do the following:

-List where you or the item is located! Esp. if you didn't fill out your profile (please do that)

...and that's only listed in the Classified section.

I'd drop the "ask" and "please" and just state everywhere that locations are Friggin' required for any posting. If you just wanna lurk and read, feel free to stay anonymous geographically. Otherwise, play by the damn rules.

Any ads posted without a location I'd simply delete and send the poster a pm with an explanation.

I don't buy the excuse that someone can't figure out how to update their profile. If they got here, they have sufficient computer ability.

Now, back to this guy's truck...

[dancni6]

Yes this in Hawaii. Sorry first time poster.

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

I'd make it required if I could. The software doesn't allow for that without mods that are outside of my limited computer skills, as far as I know.

I know you have very limited selections over there but I think this Pinz will need to be well under $10K to even bother with. Repairs could easily run into $5K or more, plus another $1000 for tires, etc.. This is all heavy guesswork but as was said, be ultra careful here.

[Hotzenplotz]

Folks

let me add my 5 cents of semi-wisdom:

the Pinz discussed above is one of the few civilian vehicles delivered for fire brigade services. Usually they were built upon a 712K chassis, and got equipped with roll up sections in the rear.


The vehicle in Hawaii , I guess has been stripped down alongside the seams between the panels, but I doubt tha the chassis is a "Frankenstein" of 712M and K parts.

[VinceAtReal4x4s]

It's ex-swiss and I doubt it could be a fire truck in any case. Also notice the tranny cover area has been modified a lot. Dash, etc. is all mil. Swiss.

[GenevaPinz]

It's ex-swiss and I doubt it could be a fire truck in any case. Also notice the tranny cover area has been modified a lot. Dash, etc. is all mil. Swiss.

I would agree with this. The "bleifrei/unleaded" green sticker next to the steering wheel was added by the Swiss military. Also, firefighters (usually) don't need rifle holders... unless it was an air base fire-fighting vehicle, but I doubt it.

[dancni6]

This vehicle's body work, rust removal and paint job is being done outside, about a block from the beach. The rust was removed and the metal was repaired with bondo. I don't know if the body man used welded sheet-metal to bridge the gaps in the through-and-through rusted areas. I know it has been painted with primer. I know that the interior of the vehicle's back cabin will be coated with Rhino liner.

My concern is that if the rust is not completely removed then potentially tiny, even unseen amounts of rust could be trapped under the paint and rhino liner. I would think that even a tiny amount of rust in the exposed outside environment (a block from the beach) could easily have water and salt from the air entrapped alongside it as it is being coated with paint or rhino liner. Wouldn't this pose a problem in the future with rust coming back?

I have no experience with doing body work. This is just my lay person's observation. It would seem that body work of this nature should be done inside, within a air conditioned (low humidity/low salt) environment.

Is this a real problem that I have just proposed? I really like the potential of this Pinz but I hate the idea of having a chore to do regarding maintenance every few months.

[NEWFISHER]

Fortunately , or unfortunately, you have answered your own question.

Body work being done outside by the beach, rust repaired with bondo, covered by bedliner. These are all red flags that translate to " run, pass, move away from"

Buy a known good one, import it to the Island and be money ahead in the long run