SOS WI DOT Cancels ALL Pinz Titles!

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:05 pm

Andy,
Well, we're certainly not relying only on that. There are other, more local, avenues which we are pursuing.

The impact of out of state comments is, of course, limited. Most elected officials are only concerned about their constituents' problems. To some degree, other people writing is seen as an annoyance.

We've already appealed to our elected officials on a "fairness" level. Like the unfairness of out-of-state owners driving on Wis. roads, while we taxpaying, voting, Wisconsin owners cannot. Like all the domestic HMVs, which are also nonconforming, still keep their licenses, while we who are exempted do not, etc. That didn't work.

We've already pointed out that we're exempted from FMVSS requirements under a variety of federal laws and regs. I've given them copies. They've basically said, "sue me".

Asking politely and rationally has not worked.

I guess, if I/we have to campaign nationally, so be it. Thus the suggestion that anyone might want to write. Not as a constituent, but as a U.S. citizen who is aware of what's going on and does not condone it. They are YOUR federal laws and regulations getting trampled on, too.

In a stampede, some poor sucker gets run down first. This time it's the Pinzgauers in Wisconsin. Next time???

Thanks for reading. What's the expression? Winners never quit, and quitters don't drive Pinzgauers. We'll keep posting.

Paul

russ · Post by **russ** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:59 am

undysworld wrote:While I appreciate your suggestion, s. 341.40(1)(b) requires that any vehicle owned by a Wisconsin citizen falls under Wisconsin registration requirements if it is operated in Wisconsin.

s. 341.03(2)(a) sets the fine at less than $200.

Perhaps you could make a small business (LLC) in another state, include a family member in that state, make sure you have permanent management control of the LLC, give family member 1% of stock in company. Transfer title of vehicle to company and register in the other state. That Wis. statute will no longer apply to you. Unfortunately it may cost more to register under a business.

russ

GenevaPinz · Post by **GenevaPinz** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:12 am

russ wrote:
undysworld wrote:While I appreciate your suggestion, s. 341.40(1)(b) requires that any vehicle owned by a Wisconsin citizen falls under Wisconsin registration requirements if it is operated in Wisconsin.

s. 341.03(2)(a) sets the fine at less than $200.

Perhaps you could make a small business (LLC) in another state, include a family member in that state, make sure you have permanent management control of the LLC, give family member 1% of stock in company. Transfer title of vehicle to company and register in the other state. That Wis. statute will no longer apply to you. Unfortunately it may cost more to register under a business.

russ

Only the two cents from a Swiss guy that doen't know a thing about US Federal or State laws, but would it be possible to set up something like this for several (or all) Wisconsin owners in order to split the cost? (I mean, any kind of legal entity based in a neigbouring state that could legally own the vehicles while still giving the owners some comfort that they actually keep their vehicles).
Probably not the easiest to put together, and in no way a solution to change the law or prevent the Wisconsin situation from spreading to other states, but... as I said just my 2 cents (or probably less).

Jan

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:35 pm

Russ,
Thank you for an interesting suggestion. I'll have to explore that. The corp. being an "entity", I would have to assume that the Wis. law wouldn't apply. Interesting. I like it.

I understand Fla. is Pinzgauer-licensing-friendly. Wanna adopt a son? The benefits would be a second Pinz in the family and the pitter-patter of big feet in the house.

I'd deed the truck to the company, which would form my basis, investment wise. Plus, then I could maybe write off "business losses". Like, oh, licensing fees? Insurance?? Gas???
Maybe I can get a "job" working for the state of Florida, advertising tourism or something. My work would involve the midwest region, say, Wisconsin.
All right, I'm too tired and rambling.

Thanks for your ideas.

Paul

texas pinzgauer · Post by **texas pinzgauer** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:20 am

I can help you in Texas too and I already operate as an LLC here. PM me if you want to discuss this option.

russ · Post by **russ** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:41 pm

I finally figured out what happened in Wisconsin...

I just saw an episode of "That 70s Show". Fez, the foreign kid, works there. Did he cancel all Pinzes?

Seems to be the ONLY logical explanation.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:07 pm

To help our cause here in WI we are looking for a registered Importer with NHTSA that knows the Pinz. I have been reviewing thier list and contacted mosted of them and have not found one that does. Has anyone worked with one or know of a registered importer that could help?

Scooter

pinztx · Post by **pinztx** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:49 pm

Try texaspinzgauer.com they maybe or could send you in the right direction. Hope this helps.

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Fri May 16, 2008 6:42 pm

Hi all,

We are in the local Madison, WI newspaper, Isthmus, yesterday. It's available on-line here: http://thedailypage.com

Patrick Robb (CWR) is cited. It's short, but sympathetic.

The author of the article, Bill Lueders, also went on WTDY 1670am yesterday at 1pm to discuss the week's issue. His first topic was our article and he spent about 5 minutes giving the specifics.

This afternoon, WKOW Ch. 27 ABC affiliate, was here for an interview. Dave Arndt brought out his truck and we got a great opportunity to give our argument. It will air at 10pm tonight.

NEVER give up.

Stay tuned....

Paul

russ · Post by **russ** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:15 pm

I keep hoping to see news that this insanity has ended. I would have though that Paul Nilsen, AKA Fez, would have come to his senses by now...

Keep on fighting, if you don't win, other vehicles will be next in Wisconsin.

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Sun May 18, 2008 7:16 pm

Hi Russ,

Yes, that's what we've been told, unofficially.

I have no intention of quitting until the federal laws and regulations are recognized by Wisconsin DOT, with regard to our trucks.

WisDOT claims they cannot do anything until, maybe, 2009, as this is a longstanding practice which is not clearly erroneous. I say bullshit.

This "practice", from evidence I've found, began September 25, 2007. That makes it less than 8 months old. The WisDOT atty. considers their interpretation of the pertinent statute to be "clearly erroneous". But he claims that a DIFFERENT interpretation of that statute was used in cancelling our titles/plates. (How many different interpretations of a statute can there be?)

I've currently got two requests in to them for clarification and substantiation of their recent claims under Wisconsin's Public Records Law. We'll see what they can produce. It's already been three weeks. I'll start rattling them on the delay soon.

I believe I've nearly got enough evidence to start up court proceedings. It may well come to that. We've asked politely, with no results. I won't waste my time again.

I've recently documented additional inconsistencies in their position which belie their most recent assertions. If it makes them look incompetent, it's really not my concern.

I don't expect this to resolve itself too soon. But I certainly intend to make it interesting. I'd prefer not to get too much more specific at this time. I'll post info as I can.

Never stop.

Paul

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:40 pm

I am scheduled for a Prehearing Telephone Conference, next Thursday, with an Administrative Law Judge from the Department of Administration, Division of Hearings and Appeals.I intend to find out what he has to say about things around here. Presuming it goes well, we'll begin the legal process.

Yesterday, I dropped off a large packet of info to my state senator, per their request. I'm making the argument that WisDOT need not wait for legislative action before reinstating our titles/license plates.

It's a good thing I've got nothing else to do in life..... Not.

Anyway, stay tuned.

Paul

andy · Post by **andy** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:50 pm

Good luck with it. If I can find a candle around here we'll light it for you. You have more than Wisconsonites pulling for you.

Andy

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:25 pm

Thanks Andy,

I've yet to talk to anybody who thinks WisDOT is correct and we're wrong. But it's always nice to be reminded of other folks' support. Thank you.

One last update for the night:

Patrick Robb, of Cold War Remarketing, has come through! WisDOT claims to be "unable to return" my original registration paperwork. Patrick has supplied me with all of the original importation details. The U.S.DOT has offered to write me a letter attesting to the legal importation of my truck, once I provide them with these details.

From Paul and all the other Wisconsin Pinzgauer Owners:

THANK YOU PATRICK!!

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:55 pm

The legal process has begun. I participated in a Telephone Prehearing Conference call this morning. I anticipate a hearing mid-July before a Judge.

It's probably not prudent to comment publicly on details at this point.

I did hear from Dennis @ Linden and also from Per E. that they will be getting together for photos as part of a comparison study between ex-mil and civvy Pinz's.

To Everyone: You know who you are, and I cannot thank you enough for the help.

It's proving to be a very busy summer, indeed.

Later,
Paul