It was the chicken tax that stopped the import of the VW bus pickup truck and why they are such a rarity in the US.
Rich A.
"Family Fleet"
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lindenengineering
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- Location: Golden Colorado USA
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Rich
Strangely this subject was all the talk in Detroit recently. Ward's Auto (a trade publication) has reported that a series of critical reports are now beginning to emerge from the auto city that the American Auto industry needs "To think Global" unquote.
GM has started this trend with its aggressive recovery and I think we will see more Asian imports coming into the US under GM badges products. Ford has stumbled and fell over its posture of grabbing overseas production but keeping it there! The very notion of importing a world Ford car like the Mondial was just that a notion. Sadly the American car industry is hamstrung by powerful unions that see the importation of cars/trucks as a threat to its membership. Strangely the effects of the Chicken Tax have come to peck Detroit in the butt big time. Those manufacturers of light trucks like Nissan simply saw an opening through Mexico and Nafta. Bouyed by cheap labor south of the border, they have flooded the market with attractrive products taking away work the Detroit/washington mandarins had hoped to exclude. It just goes to show that nothing stays the same in this industry. Who would have imagined that Lee Iacocoa (An individual I admire) could have saved Chrysler with the K car and built it up to a position where it dominated the Minivan market (it was their creation after all) was to see it merge with Daimler and who now want to hive it off as a former shadow of itself. I cannot have imagine seeing how Walter P Chrysler would have contemplated the Germans owning his American creation. Then I cannot still accept Rolls Royce and Bentley, British Icons , owned by BMW and Volkswagon either!
I made jokes in college to a Rolls Engineering Apprentice about the idea of purchase of his company to Toyota in the 1971 bankruptcy crash; this enraged the poor individual about foreign ownership of such a marque as Rolls Royce, but things have certainly changed in the last 30 odd years.
Dennis
Strangely this subject was all the talk in Detroit recently. Ward's Auto (a trade publication) has reported that a series of critical reports are now beginning to emerge from the auto city that the American Auto industry needs "To think Global" unquote.
GM has started this trend with its aggressive recovery and I think we will see more Asian imports coming into the US under GM badges products. Ford has stumbled and fell over its posture of grabbing overseas production but keeping it there! The very notion of importing a world Ford car like the Mondial was just that a notion. Sadly the American car industry is hamstrung by powerful unions that see the importation of cars/trucks as a threat to its membership. Strangely the effects of the Chicken Tax have come to peck Detroit in the butt big time. Those manufacturers of light trucks like Nissan simply saw an opening through Mexico and Nafta. Bouyed by cheap labor south of the border, they have flooded the market with attractrive products taking away work the Detroit/washington mandarins had hoped to exclude. It just goes to show that nothing stays the same in this industry. Who would have imagined that Lee Iacocoa (An individual I admire) could have saved Chrysler with the K car and built it up to a position where it dominated the Minivan market (it was their creation after all) was to see it merge with Daimler and who now want to hive it off as a former shadow of itself. I cannot have imagine seeing how Walter P Chrysler would have contemplated the Germans owning his American creation. Then I cannot still accept Rolls Royce and Bentley, British Icons , owned by BMW and Volkswagon either!
I made jokes in college to a Rolls Engineering Apprentice about the idea of purchase of his company to Toyota in the 1971 bankruptcy crash; this enraged the poor individual about foreign ownership of such a marque as Rolls Royce, but things have certainly changed in the last 30 odd years.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
I never thought in this forum that I would have reason to mention my '87 Fiero GT I bought new in '87. On that note, here is a link that seems fitting to Dennis' post. 1988 had a very nice Fiero but sadly it was the last in more than one respect:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A96E948260
russ
'74 710K
'87 Fiero GT
'94 JGC
'05 Silverado
(I miss my two TR6s, '74 and '74.5)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A96E948260
russ
'74 710K
'87 Fiero GT
'94 JGC
'05 Silverado
(I miss my two TR6s, '74 and '74.5)
What about Pinny's ....... I daresay that SDP would have never contemplated the Americans owning this Austrian creationwould have contemplated the Germans owning his American creation
Peter
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
1974, 712 6X6 Pinzgauer
1983, 710-1.6 4X4 Pinzgauer
1997, 718 6X6 Pinzgauer (in pieces)
1971, 700 Haflinger
1974, 703 LWB Haflinger
2001, Range Rover
http://www.ozpinz.com
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
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- Location: Golden Colorado USA
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Hey Peter mate, you're so right but like I wrote alot has happened in 30 years!
I was interested in the article you posted Russ, it reminds me of my time at Leyland watching all the plants closing down. The newspaper headlines could have been a mirror of yesteryear (1981 to 1987) in the Preston or Leyland times, The Daily Mirror or other Brit tabloids at the time.
I noticed the bit about dwindling sales of 2 seaters and the Fiero's loss of popularity. Although I agree that the two seater car style did lose some following Mazda and Honda have both bucked the trend and introduced similar at that same time innovative cars like the Miata & 2000. Even today the Miata has strong sales figures in NA.
There's the crunch word "innovative". The US auto industry wants to see a strong financial return in two years so its been "heavy" in the light truck and SUV market. That posture has got them into trouble with the $3.00/gallon as we know. Toyota is now the world's largest producer of vehicles. It got there because of innovation, attractive models and cutting edge reliability. Someone on this forum a few years ago doubted the fact that Toyota could nudge the big three out of the running with the heavier light truck models. Well as we have seen the newer Tundras are doing that. I wonder how long it will be before the diesel model arrives. I can be no worse that the disasterous f250 and its 6 litre Corn Binder lump.
So what of the US Industry you might ask. Well from my humble opinion there needs to be innovation and less coverups for "F--Ups". I think electric cars are the way forward and frankly lobbyist and Washington should give Detroit a wide berth. When you have as many two Ford lobbyists in the halls of power as Congressmen then there is a problem. (I refer to the Bronco 2, the "Exploder" and then the Bridgestone /Firestone/Ford debacle).That level of lobbying must have cost the industry a bundle, money in fact that could have been spent on "development" instead of "entertainment". I see one of these big three downsizing in the long term, and that's not a bad thing. I think some of these organizations are still thinking in the last century. Its time for the little guy. The US is known for innovation and design of some great products. I just don't see the industry "regulars" having the push to achieve it. What's that biblical expression?---- "The meek shall inherite the earth".----- If that's ok with you 'merican iron lovers.
Dennis
I was interested in the article you posted Russ, it reminds me of my time at Leyland watching all the plants closing down. The newspaper headlines could have been a mirror of yesteryear (1981 to 1987) in the Preston or Leyland times, The Daily Mirror or other Brit tabloids at the time.
I noticed the bit about dwindling sales of 2 seaters and the Fiero's loss of popularity. Although I agree that the two seater car style did lose some following Mazda and Honda have both bucked the trend and introduced similar at that same time innovative cars like the Miata & 2000. Even today the Miata has strong sales figures in NA.
There's the crunch word "innovative". The US auto industry wants to see a strong financial return in two years so its been "heavy" in the light truck and SUV market. That posture has got them into trouble with the $3.00/gallon as we know. Toyota is now the world's largest producer of vehicles. It got there because of innovation, attractive models and cutting edge reliability. Someone on this forum a few years ago doubted the fact that Toyota could nudge the big three out of the running with the heavier light truck models. Well as we have seen the newer Tundras are doing that. I wonder how long it will be before the diesel model arrives. I can be no worse that the disasterous f250 and its 6 litre Corn Binder lump.
So what of the US Industry you might ask. Well from my humble opinion there needs to be innovation and less coverups for "F--Ups". I think electric cars are the way forward and frankly lobbyist and Washington should give Detroit a wide berth. When you have as many two Ford lobbyists in the halls of power as Congressmen then there is a problem. (I refer to the Bronco 2, the "Exploder" and then the Bridgestone /Firestone/Ford debacle).That level of lobbying must have cost the industry a bundle, money in fact that could have been spent on "development" instead of "entertainment". I see one of these big three downsizing in the long term, and that's not a bad thing. I think some of these organizations are still thinking in the last century. Its time for the little guy. The US is known for innovation and design of some great products. I just don't see the industry "regulars" having the push to achieve it. What's that biblical expression?---- "The meek shall inherite the earth".----- If that's ok with you 'merican iron lovers.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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Jim LaGuardia
- Posts: 1707
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:42 pm
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The Fiero and it's production was actually the prototype for SATURN, if you notice as the Fiero exits the Saturn appears.
The 89 model if produced would have been a twin turbo 2.8L they showed it around a few Auto dealerships and a Few auto shows . I got a chance to see it and the performance was impressive.
I do agree that the big three think with their rear ends sometimes, the biggest problem is our country is so much larger than a small island and therefore the need for more diverse models is necessary. I don't think electrics will solve any problems as the battery storage / disposal issues are years away from being solved as well as accidents with electric vehicles(they run at 480V DC). More diesel choices would be nice, but diesel is usually more expensive in the most populus states.
The 89 model if produced would have been a twin turbo 2.8L they showed it around a few Auto dealerships and a Few auto shows . I got a chance to see it and the performance was impressive.
I do agree that the big three think with their rear ends sometimes, the biggest problem is our country is so much larger than a small island and therefore the need for more diverse models is necessary. I don't think electrics will solve any problems as the battery storage / disposal issues are years away from being solved as well as accidents with electric vehicles(they run at 480V DC). More diesel choices would be nice, but diesel is usually more expensive in the most populus states.
It's always a question of leadership.
On one final Fiero note, here is a link to the 1989 that never was:
http://www.fiero.org/auto-mag/auto-mag.html
I think that compressed air powered vehicles will find a place. When I first heard the idea it sounded a bit far fetched. After looking at how the little engine works and realizing that the infrastructure wasn't overwhelming I think they might work. Not for every application. The current target is of course small high efficiency vehicles but other opportunities may present themselves if the basic technology pans out.
http://www.theaircar.com/
This has been a fun diversion...
On one final Fiero note, here is a link to the 1989 that never was:
http://www.fiero.org/auto-mag/auto-mag.html
I think that compressed air powered vehicles will find a place. When I first heard the idea it sounded a bit far fetched. After looking at how the little engine works and realizing that the infrastructure wasn't overwhelming I think they might work. Not for every application. The current target is of course small high efficiency vehicles but other opportunities may present themselves if the basic technology pans out.
http://www.theaircar.com/
This has been a fun diversion...
-
lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Thanks to Brian for adding his comments from another insider from the industry like me.
The best critisism on a larger spectrum can best be summed up by Lee Iacoca in his book "Where have all the leaders gone?"
If you want to read a poinanat page go to Barnes and Noble and click on his book. Very apt.
Jim, Yes the UK is a very small island with about 65million of us in it. Its about the size of Minnesota. Of course it's apart of the EEC as Minnesota is part of the United States. France by the way is about the size of Texas as is Germany (roughly). The EEC as a whole is not Federal (yet some want it so). Its larger than the USA and has a larger budget. The individual states export to each other of course (Just like here) but there is a very strong emphasis to export world wide due to its unique history having colonised much of the world.
What it has in its favour is a strong monetary policy with the Euro and it carries no external debt, from that point it differs much from the US. Demand is lower than the US for cars, essentailly due to its excellent public transport infrastructure.
On one thing that the Euro zone has done first is to consolidate its auto business at the retail level. Ford USA is currently downsizing its dealerships by phase out. The posture at present is to naturally allow atrician to take place so that they don't incur expenses due to buy out and shut down. Time will tell if this is a success. In Europe there were alot of small businesses like mine with dealerships, my friend Dalle Freres in France had a Citroen/Renault dealership. In Germany the same was with Audi Volkwagen/Mercedes. The factories have since the 80's shrunk the franchises to a mere shadow of themselves and the same will happen here. Dealix (another trade publication) is reporting that some of the dealerships are hiring British consultants on how to best deal with this reduction threat and loss of business. If anything from the Euro model can be gleened its another step in the direction of reduced personal service. Again by contrast Honda has maintained it policy of small business franchises worldwide, and rejecting models like those of Wayne Huizinga in Florida. Guess who has one of the best service systems?? Need I say any more. Once again it's "Service" being the maxim.
On the electric car business we again have to look at Europe for guidance. There is a mandate there for car companies to recycle old product; the disposal issue is best contained by that policy. The electric car will be much more reliable and need fewer service intervals. It will reduce the number of service points it needs and businesses like mine will disappear or reinvent themselves. Why? Well you won't be able to buy a car of the future, just lease it (that's my gaze into the crystal ball.)
For the future like I said the Asains are making cars cheaper than us, Toyota and Scion are "component made" in China, and China is now Japan's biggest trade partner having nudged the USA aside. I guess it's power of place. So to coin a statement from Confusious, "May we live in interesting times"
Bye Bye Dennis
The best critisism on a larger spectrum can best be summed up by Lee Iacoca in his book "Where have all the leaders gone?"
If you want to read a poinanat page go to Barnes and Noble and click on his book. Very apt.
Jim, Yes the UK is a very small island with about 65million of us in it. Its about the size of Minnesota. Of course it's apart of the EEC as Minnesota is part of the United States. France by the way is about the size of Texas as is Germany (roughly). The EEC as a whole is not Federal (yet some want it so). Its larger than the USA and has a larger budget. The individual states export to each other of course (Just like here) but there is a very strong emphasis to export world wide due to its unique history having colonised much of the world.
What it has in its favour is a strong monetary policy with the Euro and it carries no external debt, from that point it differs much from the US. Demand is lower than the US for cars, essentailly due to its excellent public transport infrastructure.
On one thing that the Euro zone has done first is to consolidate its auto business at the retail level. Ford USA is currently downsizing its dealerships by phase out. The posture at present is to naturally allow atrician to take place so that they don't incur expenses due to buy out and shut down. Time will tell if this is a success. In Europe there were alot of small businesses like mine with dealerships, my friend Dalle Freres in France had a Citroen/Renault dealership. In Germany the same was with Audi Volkwagen/Mercedes. The factories have since the 80's shrunk the franchises to a mere shadow of themselves and the same will happen here. Dealix (another trade publication) is reporting that some of the dealerships are hiring British consultants on how to best deal with this reduction threat and loss of business. If anything from the Euro model can be gleened its another step in the direction of reduced personal service. Again by contrast Honda has maintained it policy of small business franchises worldwide, and rejecting models like those of Wayne Huizinga in Florida. Guess who has one of the best service systems?? Need I say any more. Once again it's "Service" being the maxim.
On the electric car business we again have to look at Europe for guidance. There is a mandate there for car companies to recycle old product; the disposal issue is best contained by that policy. The electric car will be much more reliable and need fewer service intervals. It will reduce the number of service points it needs and businesses like mine will disappear or reinvent themselves. Why? Well you won't be able to buy a car of the future, just lease it (that's my gaze into the crystal ball.)
For the future like I said the Asains are making cars cheaper than us, Toyota and Scion are "component made" in China, and China is now Japan's biggest trade partner having nudged the USA aside. I guess it's power of place. So to coin a statement from Confusious, "May we live in interesting times"
Bye Bye Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Hey you blokes.
As a tail piece to the US auto Industry and its subliminal protectionism I have just seen an editorial by Auntie Beeb where the Bush Admin is seeking ways to reduce invisible barriers and that is to include the Motor Industry.
I wouldn't get jumping up and down yet but in the distant future you just may be able to buy a Pinz directly from the Euro manufacturers if they haven't shifted the production to the US or Mexico. Don't scoff, stranger things have happened as we have observed over the past 30 odd years!
They ultimately might end up being put together in China.
Now as a comment, Jim mentioned that the Pontiac plastic car was the forerunner of the Saturn. Now if there is a bright future for the US Industry take a look at their model line up. These cars are nice looking AND reliable. We don't fix too many but I like this car. Easy to fix, parts are cheap and plentiful and they don't come back after a repair. This has to be the best value car in the US, and it looks sharp!
I am too small to be a factory dealer but would jump at the chance if that came along.
Dennis
As a tail piece to the US auto Industry and its subliminal protectionism I have just seen an editorial by Auntie Beeb where the Bush Admin is seeking ways to reduce invisible barriers and that is to include the Motor Industry.
I wouldn't get jumping up and down yet but in the distant future you just may be able to buy a Pinz directly from the Euro manufacturers if they haven't shifted the production to the US or Mexico. Don't scoff, stranger things have happened as we have observed over the past 30 odd years!
They ultimately might end up being put together in China.
Now as a comment, Jim mentioned that the Pontiac plastic car was the forerunner of the Saturn. Now if there is a bright future for the US Industry take a look at their model line up. These cars are nice looking AND reliable. We don't fix too many but I like this car. Easy to fix, parts are cheap and plentiful and they don't come back after a repair. This has to be the best value car in the US, and it looks sharp!
I am too small to be a factory dealer but would jump at the chance if that came along.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Hey you blokes,
It might have been "The British Are Coming" a few centuries ago but now the cry is "The Chinese are coming.
I have just seen an editorial on Auntie Beeb that Chrysler has just signed a deal with Chery of Shanghai to manufacture and import cheap hatchbacks into the North American market under the Chrysler badge who will market and support the product.
Yes may we live in interesting times.
I wonder what Walter P Chrysler would have thought of that?
Cheers Dennis
It might have been "The British Are Coming" a few centuries ago but now the cry is "The Chinese are coming.
I have just seen an editorial on Auntie Beeb that Chrysler has just signed a deal with Chery of Shanghai to manufacture and import cheap hatchbacks into the North American market under the Chrysler badge who will market and support the product.
Yes may we live in interesting times.
I wonder what Walter P Chrysler would have thought of that?
Cheers Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now