712 are falling too. Prices were right around 20 last year. now 15k. In this case im not complaining though
Is the economy that bad or has the number of available units risen?
Stop selling your Pinz so cheap!
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audiocontr
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:30 pm
- Location: Buffalo NY
Stop selling your Pinz so cheap!
I've watched for a year now as prices have come down. A decent 710m was going for 11k or so last year. Now people have them on line for less than 10. in some cases, 8500! Thats crazy! So much so that I will probably hold onto my 710 until the market pops back up a little.
712 are falling too. Prices were right around 20 last year. now 15k. In this case im not complaining though
Is the economy that bad or has the number of available units risen?
712 are falling too. Prices were right around 20 last year. now 15k. In this case im not complaining though
Is the economy that bad or has the number of available units risen?
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pinzinator
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:12 pm
- Location: Indio, California
The economy is bad, for starters. Most people I meet who want a Pinzgauer can't get past the talking stage, and are worried about parts availability. To say that parts are easy to get usually falls on deaf ears. And who will work on it? Get some tools and a manual just like I did.
My decision to buy my first Pinzgauer took 2 seconds, and that was 10 years ago. The 'talkers' miss out on fun every day, while I have a lot stories to tell about owning one.
My decision to buy my first Pinzgauer took 2 seconds, and that was 10 years ago. The 'talkers' miss out on fun every day, while I have a lot stories to tell about owning one.
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Twin Pinzies
- Posts: 545
- Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:33 pm
- Location: San Juan Mountains, CO
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stiffler4444
- Posts: 776
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:46 pm
- Location: Crystal Beach ON CAN
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
Guys
A Pinzgauer is a vehicle and like ALL vehicles its value is based upon what someone is prepared to pay for it?
The price will obviously vary a bit from one area of the country to another but I am seeing a tidy 712 going for about $10 to $12K and a 710M for $8K.
In these economic times many owners want out and will let a truck go cheap to liquidate some cash and solve some pressing financial issues, its that simple!
Yes you might find a potential buyer for about $10k for a 710M but you are likely to sit on it for a while. A long while!
Dennis
A Pinzgauer is a vehicle and like ALL vehicles its value is based upon what someone is prepared to pay for it?
The price will obviously vary a bit from one area of the country to another but I am seeing a tidy 712 going for about $10 to $12K and a 710M for $8K.
In these economic times many owners want out and will let a truck go cheap to liquidate some cash and solve some pressing financial issues, its that simple!
Yes you might find a potential buyer for about $10k for a 710M but you are likely to sit on it for a while. A long while!
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
712 for 10-12K Thats ridiculous by any standard. That person has not even tried. Pinzgauers, mogs and other vehicles of this type are not effected nearly the same as others in bad economic times. The only reason we are seeing this rash of cheap trucks is because the value has been artificially screwed by owners who likely couldn't afford to have the truck to begin with. Their beloved pinz is the first thing to let go and they will take any number. Its a dangerous slippery slope that takes time and patience to recover from.
Bottom line is, everyone that can afford to keep their trucks, but wants to sell anyway, should hold out for the higher values. Some of the 712's I have seen sell recently for 15K + were junk in my opinion, but people still bought them.
Pinzgauers are "premium vehicles" and should be treated as such. I highly recommend sellers make small investments such as a new top or new tires and clean up all the little things before they sell, and start at a higher price. This will generally yeild higher sales prices and faster sales. A lot of the current prospective buyers dont want a project, they want something they can drive and not worry about. They will be very picky about tops, tires, and general cosmetic condition. So replace those weathered door cards, replace the cracked locker shift knobs etc. A cracked windshield can be a $1500-$2000 bargaining chip for a potential buyer. I even went in and repositioned the warning light plaqards on my truck because one was a little off. I always make sure I have done everything I can before I sell a truck. The list has been daunting on my 712 the last few weeks. Everything from valve adjustments to new exhaust, Rewiring a few items to replace worn connectors and wire, full brake adjustment etc. It all pays off in the end with a happy new owner. In my case, I can only hope the New owner has been working half as hard to make the truck I am trading just as complete and ready to drive.
Basically, dont let idiots tell you your truck is worth S&^T now because of the economy. Sell it for what it is really worth and you will find a buyer and help maintain the values of these cool little trucks.
Sorry if I rambled a bit, I was just really upset to see the above comments, and was trying to hold back my personal opinions.
Bottom line is, everyone that can afford to keep their trucks, but wants to sell anyway, should hold out for the higher values. Some of the 712's I have seen sell recently for 15K + were junk in my opinion, but people still bought them.
Pinzgauers are "premium vehicles" and should be treated as such. I highly recommend sellers make small investments such as a new top or new tires and clean up all the little things before they sell, and start at a higher price. This will generally yeild higher sales prices and faster sales. A lot of the current prospective buyers dont want a project, they want something they can drive and not worry about. They will be very picky about tops, tires, and general cosmetic condition. So replace those weathered door cards, replace the cracked locker shift knobs etc. A cracked windshield can be a $1500-$2000 bargaining chip for a potential buyer. I even went in and repositioned the warning light plaqards on my truck because one was a little off. I always make sure I have done everything I can before I sell a truck. The list has been daunting on my 712 the last few weeks. Everything from valve adjustments to new exhaust, Rewiring a few items to replace worn connectors and wire, full brake adjustment etc. It all pays off in the end with a happy new owner. In my case, I can only hope the New owner has been working half as hard to make the truck I am trading just as complete and ready to drive.
Basically, dont let idiots tell you your truck is worth S&^T now because of the economy. Sell it for what it is really worth and you will find a buyer and help maintain the values of these cool little trucks.
Sorry if I rambled a bit, I was just really upset to see the above comments, and was trying to hold back my personal opinions.
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
[quote="lindenengineering"]Guys
A Pinzgauer is a vehicle and like ALL vehicles its value is based upon what someone is prepared to pay for it?
My statement stands.
I sell several on consignment yearly. I got $11,000 for a 712 recently. The owners was overjoyed to get rid of it and originally listed for $16,000. The vehicle served no use to his now ailing business due to lack of customers.
That vehicle languished on my lot for more than a year.
Any post 1981 Pinzgauer has no value in Colorado. You can't get it by the E test, so it has no value to a metro area resident. That limits your potential customer base from the "get go".
Today in fact a 710m (mildly whacked) in the front corner and windscreen was written off at $2800 by the insurance company.
It's value was judged to be $7800 in good shape (as it was prior to the shunt!)
Food for thought
Dennis
A Pinzgauer is a vehicle and like ALL vehicles its value is based upon what someone is prepared to pay for it?
My statement stands.
I sell several on consignment yearly. I got $11,000 for a 712 recently. The owners was overjoyed to get rid of it and originally listed for $16,000. The vehicle served no use to his now ailing business due to lack of customers.
That vehicle languished on my lot for more than a year.
Any post 1981 Pinzgauer has no value in Colorado. You can't get it by the E test, so it has no value to a metro area resident. That limits your potential customer base from the "get go".
Today in fact a 710m (mildly whacked) in the front corner and windscreen was written off at $2800 by the insurance company.
It's value was judged to be $7800 in good shape (as it was prior to the shunt!)
Food for thought
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
Your talking about a pinz that is in a market place where it cannot be used? That has no bearing on this subject.
And Insurance values have zero bearing as well.
By the way, my Pinz has an agreed value with my insurance company of $19,000 before modifications.
The Numbers you posted (especially for a 712) are not in any way relative to actual pinz sales.
If I was to go to the dealer and buy a brand new Porsche (anymodel) and paid sticker but had financial trouble 6 months later and sold the car for 10K, that would not reflect the current market value.
Nor would it if 50 other people screwed up and did the same thing, in the same month.
Another example, if I bought a 1988 MBU unimog and brought it to the states and decided since it cannot be as easily imported as I hoped, and sold it for a song and a dance, that does not bring down the value of the pre 1986 MBU unimogs. And if 20 others had the same issue in the course of a year, it still does not bring down the value of legal units.
Its to bad the 712 you are talking about was not properly advertised so the PO could have gotten what he deserved. Could have sold it in Albuquerque for 15K easy if not more since you claim it is so "TIDY"
And Insurance values have zero bearing as well.
By the way, my Pinz has an agreed value with my insurance company of $19,000 before modifications.
The Numbers you posted (especially for a 712) are not in any way relative to actual pinz sales.
If I was to go to the dealer and buy a brand new Porsche (anymodel) and paid sticker but had financial trouble 6 months later and sold the car for 10K, that would not reflect the current market value.
Nor would it if 50 other people screwed up and did the same thing, in the same month.
Another example, if I bought a 1988 MBU unimog and brought it to the states and decided since it cannot be as easily imported as I hoped, and sold it for a song and a dance, that does not bring down the value of the pre 1986 MBU unimogs. And if 20 others had the same issue in the course of a year, it still does not bring down the value of legal units.
Its to bad the 712 you are talking about was not properly advertised so the PO could have gotten what he deserved. Could have sold it in Albuquerque for 15K easy if not more since you claim it is so "TIDY"
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
dokatd
This simply brings me back to my statement about what someone is prepared to pay!.
You mentioned MB's --I can recall a similar set of statements as yours from an Idaho owner of a nice U1300 with all the gizmos--He ranted and raved about the same things as you did to potential buyers on my lot--but after the dog and pony show--AND when all the tyre kickers had left with all the promises, there was just one guy standing with an open cheque book!
He got it for what he wanted to pay!
Because he was in a buyers market condition!
The guy really wanted to liquidate the truck--he didn't get what he wanted --but it got rid of it and he solved a financial bind he was in.
The same goes for Pinzgauers, in fact houses (short sales) aircraft, well in fact anything where people want to do a deal!
And by the way--when a product like a Pinzgauer become a lawn ornament because it cannot be licensed then its value is significantly reduced because it cannot be used.
It all boils down to supply and demand--In short no demand ---no value!
Dennis
This simply brings me back to my statement about what someone is prepared to pay!.
You mentioned MB's --I can recall a similar set of statements as yours from an Idaho owner of a nice U1300 with all the gizmos--He ranted and raved about the same things as you did to potential buyers on my lot--but after the dog and pony show--AND when all the tyre kickers had left with all the promises, there was just one guy standing with an open cheque book!
He got it for what he wanted to pay!
Because he was in a buyers market condition!
The guy really wanted to liquidate the truck--he didn't get what he wanted --but it got rid of it and he solved a financial bind he was in.
The same goes for Pinzgauers, in fact houses (short sales) aircraft, well in fact anything where people want to do a deal!
And by the way--when a product like a Pinzgauer become a lawn ornament because it cannot be licensed then its value is significantly reduced because it cannot be used.
It all boils down to supply and demand--In short no demand ---no value!
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
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Pinzgauer Pete
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:07 pm
- Location: Middletown, New York
SAD but TRUE...supply and demand is the one unwavering rule in the game and this economy has added fuel to the fire. Many Pinz owners buy their vehicles simply for the joy of owning one..not for any practical reason..so it stands to reason that after losing employment and desperately trying to hangon to their possesions..they will eventually sell off their non essential items..Pinz, motorcycle, sports car...but many try to hold on far too long and once desperation sets in sells the item for far less than worth only because they now do not have the luxury of waiting for the buyer that understands value and worth in the vehicle but when confronted with taking a huge loss on a vehicle or not being able to pay for essentials...they make the hard decision to get some money as opposed to no money....life in general is all about timing....just my 2 cents!....and for the record Doc..I like your passion!!!!
life is like a box of chocolates...you never know which one you might get
710M
710M
Once again, you are talking about someone who has to liquidate their truck. Thats a different world and different values.
I would contend that anyone who brings their truck to your lot gets screwed.
Explain the numerous 712s that have sold in the last months for about 15K that were beat. Expalin why I had people beating my door down for my pinz listed at 23K
Just by you making the first value statements you did on this thread brings the value of our trucks down for a couple months. Any potential buyers now will quote your prices, because you are a "reputable shop"..
Are these people that are selling off your lot advertising, because you dont seem to on your web site.? Were the potential buyers all local? You are stating pretty exact values like they are fact just because you had a couple trucks liquidated of your lot.
Sure a beat down 712 might be valued in the 12-13K range but a descent complete 712 should take no less than 14-16K in the current market. A well cared for stock 712 should fetch about 16-20K and a heavily modded truck should start at 19K and go up depending on mods done.
You see how the values I place on our trucks is taking in account diferent conditions etc. And do you see how poor condition trucks take a huge hit over a nice clean and complete truck. These values are reflecting current sales that I have been watching over the last 6 months. And again, just because you helped a few poor saps liquidate their trucks, does not cause mass reduction in value of the regular market.
You can BS all you want about housing markets and economy etc but your flat out wrong I understand where your coming from, but you are not taking in account many things. I have been buying and selling collector vehicles for 15 yrs, and I have seen a lot, and never lost a dime on a truck. But I have never seen a "reputable shop" devalue vehicles so quickly. Sad thing is that it ultimately hurts your business too. And it defeats the purpose and intent of the original poster.
So, aside from your special little lot Dennis, show me evidence to support the values you place on the 712 in particular. I wont dispute the 710 values that much because your not hugely off in value, but you are still shorting the 710 community quite a bit.
I would contend that anyone who brings their truck to your lot gets screwed.
Explain the numerous 712s that have sold in the last months for about 15K that were beat. Expalin why I had people beating my door down for my pinz listed at 23K
Just by you making the first value statements you did on this thread brings the value of our trucks down for a couple months. Any potential buyers now will quote your prices, because you are a "reputable shop"..
Are these people that are selling off your lot advertising, because you dont seem to on your web site.? Were the potential buyers all local? You are stating pretty exact values like they are fact just because you had a couple trucks liquidated of your lot.
Sure a beat down 712 might be valued in the 12-13K range but a descent complete 712 should take no less than 14-16K in the current market. A well cared for stock 712 should fetch about 16-20K and a heavily modded truck should start at 19K and go up depending on mods done.
You see how the values I place on our trucks is taking in account diferent conditions etc. And do you see how poor condition trucks take a huge hit over a nice clean and complete truck. These values are reflecting current sales that I have been watching over the last 6 months. And again, just because you helped a few poor saps liquidate their trucks, does not cause mass reduction in value of the regular market.
You can BS all you want about housing markets and economy etc but your flat out wrong I understand where your coming from, but you are not taking in account many things. I have been buying and selling collector vehicles for 15 yrs, and I have seen a lot, and never lost a dime on a truck. But I have never seen a "reputable shop" devalue vehicles so quickly. Sad thing is that it ultimately hurts your business too. And it defeats the purpose and intent of the original poster.
So, aside from your special little lot Dennis, show me evidence to support the values you place on the 712 in particular. I wont dispute the 710 values that much because your not hugely off in value, but you are still shorting the 710 community quite a bit.
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Sam Fisher
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:05 pm
- Location: Chicago,IL
I agree with Dennis....
I think some people are getting a little to emotional.....
When all your talkin about is business! Economics101...
You can demand all you want, but the market is going to
set the price for what a pinz is worth.
I say good day to you!
Lol
Mike
p.s. Does anybody want to buy my house that
I'm upside down on......lol
When all your talkin about is business! Economics101...
You can demand all you want, but the market is going to
set the price for what a pinz is worth.
I say good day to you!
Lol
Mike
p.s. Does anybody want to buy my house that
I'm upside down on......lol
So others may live.
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lindenengineering
- Posts: 715
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:14 pm
- Location: Golden Colorado USA
- Contact:
On consigment sales the customer sets the asking pricing prior sales agreement.Erik712m wrote:.dokatd wrote: I would contend that anyone who brings their truck to your lot gets screwed.
bit.
Amen!!
EVERY offer is presented to the seller formally for consideration in writing.
Upon acceptance of an offer the seller meets the buyer for a formal hand over with an E test if applicable.
If anyone has got screwed as you put it its not by me.
Obviously not everyone agrees with your assessement, I have 8 Pinzgauers in my shop at present and I have a wait list running for work
As posted by others please try to keep your boyhood emotions to yourself and conduct yourself in a gentleman like manner on this forum.
Dennis
OOOps no customer bashing now
Mike (and Dennis),
I have to agree with you - too much emotion and not enough business sense.
Supply and demand rules. For those that can sit on their supply (Pinz) and wait for the price to improve, great, because it means they have planned their finances better than others or simply been more lucky. For those that can't sit back and wait for better pricing because the bank wants their money today, or the wife is due any day now, than they are going to sell at the price offered.
Whether you sell a vehicle yourself or consign it to a dealer, the vehicle owner still sets the minimum price and is responsible for that decision. Blaming and insulting the dealer is foolish and non-productive in my opinion.
Paul
I have to agree with you - too much emotion and not enough business sense.
Supply and demand rules. For those that can sit on their supply (Pinz) and wait for the price to improve, great, because it means they have planned their finances better than others or simply been more lucky. For those that can't sit back and wait for better pricing because the bank wants their money today, or the wife is due any day now, than they are going to sell at the price offered.
Whether you sell a vehicle yourself or consign it to a dealer, the vehicle owner still sets the minimum price and is responsible for that decision. Blaming and insulting the dealer is foolish and non-productive in my opinion.
Paul
Paul C.
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'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE
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'73 Swiss 710M
'89 Puch 230GE