THE PORTAL HUB - Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvo 303s and more!

The long debated question: which is a more adept 4x4, Pinzgauer or Defender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoTNe-SdEIc
Chalk this one up for Pinzgauer.

HA...I don't recommend that you put that on the NWOS site. They will never speak to you again.
I enjoyed it.

Happy New Year

Morris:
I've learned my lesson!

Yeah, me too. I knew I was supposed to get smarter as I got older...sometimes I am.

It seemed to be more an issue of tires than anything else.

It looked a lot like undercarriage clearance as well. Of course there are those that might claim that the pinz, going up first, made it
too muddy and sloppy for the D to get traction.

Tires&clearence issue

There are a few variables already mentioned which hamper that Defender, but those deep Pinzie ruts didn't do him any favours at all !!!

If you take off your Pinz colored glasses, you'd see the Pinz didn't make the last climb either, and winched itself over/through the hill ( at 1:35ish you can see the danfor anchor being planted ).
The Landie was doomed from the beginning, the Pinz was the first and rutted the hill badly... though the Defender wouldn't have faired any better. It didn't appear the Landie had locked the "center diff" ( aka transfer case , the Defender is a full time 4x4 , and has a lever to power to both axle, they do not have locking front or rear diff from the factory)
But any way you look at it, that's in a quarry, with man made hills, no compaction and the last hill appears was freshly made for the event

Surely the Pinz has unarguable mechanical superiority over a factory Defender?

It has maybe 6 clear inches more under diff height, and fully lockable drivetrain. No stock Defender can compete with that. There's a cult surrounding Land Rover which is fuelled by emotion more than cold logic, I think. I'd have a Landcruiser or a Patrol ahead of a Defender any day.

Nissan Patrols don't feature too much in the US but are capable machines and often unfairly come a distant second to the LC. The Australians love the Patrol. Over here in Scotland we were only marketed the 3.0l TD engined variants which maybe had reliability issues. In OZ you can buy all manner of hairy diesel and petrol V8s.

Not that me currently having a Pinz affects my impartiality. No sirree.

bonefish635 wrote:There's a cult surrounding Land Rover which is fuelled by emotion more than cold logic, I think. I'd have a Landcruiser or a Patrol ahead of a Defender any day.

That's 100% correct about all vehicles, the Jeep is another vehicle that uses ww2 to justify it's capablities but never really increased those capabilities for 60 years e.g. Cherokee's with drum and leaf rear suspension in 1994.

The Toyota Land Cruisers are a much more capable vehicle than the Land Rovers. When The Australian Army tendered to replace the series Land Rovers it was Toyota versus Land Rover.

Land Rover 'Perentie' won the contract but the vehicle is like no other Land Rover having a different chassis, 4.2 Isuzu diesel and a host of modifications. The 6x6 variant is also wider than the standard vehicle.

Toyota had the strength but the Perentie had more variations 4x4, 6x6, special ops. However the bits still Land Rover like the gearboxes fell apart quite quickly.

I love Land Rovers but I am under no illusion they are the ultimate vehicle. They are perhaps the best vehicle for people who like to tinker.

The funniest argument I saw online was a Land Rover guy saying "Toyota's are good but when you have to fix them it costs $$$$$$$$$". The Toyota guy said "yes but a major repair is not that often but a Land Rover needs fixing each week so which one costs more"

There are so many apple and orange-like comparisons between all the trucks. That Defender is faster overall, gets much better mileage, parts are easy to find, has more suspension flex and is more stable than just about any 4x4. The drawbacks are no lockers (from the factory anyway) average ground clearance and all Rover's have driveline strength issues, plus what was mentioned already.

I lost a good chunk of my emotional attachment to Rover's when my own, which I drove for 10 years, broke its second axle and almost caused me to roll down a very dangerous hillside. I will say that it was generally more capable than just about anything else I, or anyone I knew, did trails with and could be fixed with simple tools. Though the first time I took my old 710M out to a big Rover off-road event, I was able to do things that no one else there could accomplish. If that event had been in Moab instead of the east coast, I may have rolled over in a Pinz in dozens of common spots where the Rover likely would not be close to doing so...

Some people will argue what's best but there's never a clear answer. A G-wagen (esp. the older ones) could be said to be the best conventional 4x4 consistently/overall, but it could never do certain things a 712 could do, just like a larger model Unimog could do things that none of these often discussed 4x4's could even think of doing, and vice-versa. An old 404 Unimog might be the most capable 4x4/vs. price/availability overall, but try driving that thing around for long plus getting really horrible mpg... and so on.

It is more about the driving ability than anything else, of course, and what you need or want a 4x4 for. Practicality of ownership and operation has become a big factor for me as well.

I drive a 2011 Defender xs station wagon, its my everyday car (bowls along at legal speed limit easily, can hear the stereo, has a heater) and is a very capable vehicle, more so than most things on the road here. I am a lifelong land rover fan (atic)!
I love my landy.

Land Rover (as a company) could do well to apply and adhere to Pinzgauer build ethos, Reliability, Durability and Mobility..........

Bought a Pinz 712 (ambulance) three years ago, fantastic vehicle sadly worryingly could not keep up in the traffic, which I found personally a bit scary!

Traded it for a 710, what a fantastic vehicle for me, and my first choice every time the word offroad is mentioned, even above my defender.

The pinz will go where land rovers fear to tread.....

I love my Pinz.

I sadly hope/have to sell my Pinz for personal reasons soon, but I will be having another one just as soon as I can.

I will retire in five years, hope to travel the world in an expedition prepared vehicle, ending up living at a property I have in Northeast Washington State, I tell you this because it poses a personal question....

What vehicle will it be in ? I have to say it will most likely be a Pinzgauer!!!!!

Don't want to start this all over again, but is that a towing cable or a push rod between the 712 and the Defender?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTswN6XhgX0

and for those of us suffering with 718 envy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMb2xPIy ... el&list=UL