But seriously, wouldn't it be feasible to adjust brakes at tire rotation intervals?
How often do you all rotate?
newbie questions
Moderator: TechMOGogy
maintenance schedule
Actually the brake adjustment isn't that difficult to perform. I have done it seferal times. The biggest thing for me is remembering which way the star rotates to expand the shoe.
Since I have installed the balancing beads the tyres seem to be wearing just fime. Really cut down on the vibration at speed.
Morris
Since I have installed the balancing beads the tyres seem to be wearing just fime. Really cut down on the vibration at speed.
Morris
-
chacaocop1
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:25 pm
- Location: McKinney, TX
- Contact:
I have not seen anybody in this thread mentioning the difference between the front and rear brake adjustments.
For those do it "yourselfers" guys like me I would like to share something I learned once.
Any vehicle using drum brakes, usually has a brake cylinder in one side of the pad and the other side of the pad works as a hinge where the adjustment screw is located, so to adjust your brakes you simple turn the screw to the proper side so the "hinge" is closer the the drum and the brakes are adjusted.
That is also true for the REAR brakes on the Pinzgauer.
Now with the FRONT brakes the story is different.
The Pinzgauer has two cylinder brakes in the front and both have screws to adjust them. If you are adjusting the front brakes you MUST adjust both cylinders, one first and then rotate the tire 180 degrees and repeat the same operation.
For those do it "yourselfers" guys like me I would like to share something I learned once.
Any vehicle using drum brakes, usually has a brake cylinder in one side of the pad and the other side of the pad works as a hinge where the adjustment screw is located, so to adjust your brakes you simple turn the screw to the proper side so the "hinge" is closer the the drum and the brakes are adjusted.
That is also true for the REAR brakes on the Pinzgauer.
Now with the FRONT brakes the story is different.
The Pinzgauer has two cylinder brakes in the front and both have screws to adjust them. If you are adjusting the front brakes you MUST adjust both cylinders, one first and then rotate the tire 180 degrees and repeat the same operation.
CHACAOCOP
1973 712M
1973 712M
-
undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Diesaroo,
Funny how one smallish question leads to another and another and...
I guess that's part of what keeps these Pinzgauers still interesting; you're always learning/dealing with something new.
It probably is feasable to adj. brakes when you rotate. But it may or may not be necessary at that time. I adjust the brakes when my pedal feels like I might want to pump it a second time (just like now!). I will rotate the tires at that time too.
The tires on (at least my) 712 wear funny. The fronts wear the most, but they wear evely side to side. The rears wear less, but only the outside edge, due to the truck being empty commonly. And of course, the spare is not wearing at all. To even out the wear, I rotate frequently, perhaps every 600 miles! Usually, this mileage does not require brake adjustments. To top things off, at approximately 1/2 tread life left, I have all 7 tires remounted backwards on the rims. This evens out the lopsided wear from the rear tires.
A couple last points about brake adjustment. IIRC, after removing the tire/wheel, the drum must be secured with 2 lug nuts during adjustments. The right front star wheel adjuster rotates in the opposite direction from the other wheel's adjusters.
Personally, I don't think they are difficult to adjust. It's just that when you compare the Pinz's 6 manually adjusted brakes to my Toyota with it's self-adjusting brakes... Well, it's certainly more work.
No pain, no gain.
Funny how one smallish question leads to another and another and...
I guess that's part of what keeps these Pinzgauers still interesting; you're always learning/dealing with something new.
It probably is feasable to adj. brakes when you rotate. But it may or may not be necessary at that time. I adjust the brakes when my pedal feels like I might want to pump it a second time (just like now!). I will rotate the tires at that time too.
The tires on (at least my) 712 wear funny. The fronts wear the most, but they wear evely side to side. The rears wear less, but only the outside edge, due to the truck being empty commonly. And of course, the spare is not wearing at all. To even out the wear, I rotate frequently, perhaps every 600 miles! Usually, this mileage does not require brake adjustments. To top things off, at approximately 1/2 tread life left, I have all 7 tires remounted backwards on the rims. This evens out the lopsided wear from the rear tires.
A couple last points about brake adjustment. IIRC, after removing the tire/wheel, the drum must be secured with 2 lug nuts during adjustments. The right front star wheel adjuster rotates in the opposite direction from the other wheel's adjusters.
Personally, I don't think they are difficult to adjust. It's just that when you compare the Pinz's 6 manually adjusted brakes to my Toyota with it's self-adjusting brakes... Well, it's certainly more work.
No pain, no gain.
-
pinzwheeling
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:14 pm
- Location: San Diego / Ramona
- Contact:
Points all around for everyone's info! 
On my subaru which has awd, I have to keep the tires within 1/4" in circumference to avoid wear on the spider gears. Is this something to keep an eye on in a pinzgauer since it also IIRC has spider gears?
Also, does the 4wd/6wd function on dry pavement ala modern awd, or is it more like a conventional 4wd that can only be used in poor traction conditions?
TIA
On my subaru which has awd, I have to keep the tires within 1/4" in circumference to avoid wear on the spider gears. Is this something to keep an eye on in a pinzgauer since it also IIRC has spider gears?
Also, does the 4wd/6wd function on dry pavement ala modern awd, or is it more like a conventional 4wd that can only be used in poor traction conditions?
TIA
But when you own a big chunk of the bloody third world, The babies just come with the scenery.
-
undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Diesaroo,
I'd never heard that for a Suby. It seems like there's more diff. wear from turning than due to tire size differences (?) and that gear movement due to tire mismatch would be fairly minimal. I drive an Imprezza on my off-days.
The Pinz 4-/6-wheel function works nothing like the Subaru system. (Unless maybe your rear-wheel-drive clutch pack is not working in the Suby, and it's locked up.) The Suby system is a front wheel drive until the rear pack locks the rear diff. into the drive. If it's locked up, you'll experience torque-bind going around corners. (Torque-bind is a common subject on Suby forums)
The Pinz couples the drive train solidly, so whatever is 'locked in' is gear driven. I never use the Pinz 'locked in' on dry pavement. That would cause extreme difficulty turning and (I'd assume) excessive wear on the drive train.
Paul
I'd never heard that for a Suby. It seems like there's more diff. wear from turning than due to tire size differences (?) and that gear movement due to tire mismatch would be fairly minimal. I drive an Imprezza on my off-days.
The Pinz 4-/6-wheel function works nothing like the Subaru system. (Unless maybe your rear-wheel-drive clutch pack is not working in the Suby, and it's locked up.) The Suby system is a front wheel drive until the rear pack locks the rear diff. into the drive. If it's locked up, you'll experience torque-bind going around corners. (Torque-bind is a common subject on Suby forums)
The Pinz couples the drive train solidly, so whatever is 'locked in' is gear driven. I never use the Pinz 'locked in' on dry pavement. That would cause extreme difficulty turning and (I'd assume) excessive wear on the drive train.
Paul
There are several suby awd systems out there. It sounds like you have the same one I do: the 4eat phase II automatic (cvttc) with the front wheel drive bias that normally splits torque 90/10 front to rear under normal conditions and maxes out at 50/50 under poor traction conditions.
I couldn't track down the tire rule immediately, but I think it's a consensus on the NASIOC and edmunds forums. It may have to do with when you replace tires on an awd vehicle you must change all 4. I'll see if I can dig up more later...
As far as the pinz goes, on the 712, do you not normally have 4wd in the back always and then lock it into 6wd in poor traction situations? Or is it 2wd like the 710 normally?
Eric
I couldn't track down the tire rule immediately, but I think it's a consensus on the NASIOC and edmunds forums. It may have to do with when you replace tires on an awd vehicle you must change all 4. I'll see if I can dig up more later...
As far as the pinz goes, on the 712, do you not normally have 4wd in the back always and then lock it into 6wd in poor traction situations? Or is it 2wd like the 710 normally?
Eric
But when you own a big chunk of the bloody third world, The babies just come with the scenery.
-
undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Yup, 4eat. (on another note, you know about the override modification to lock up the front/rear diff. I assume?)
On any 4wd, I've always made sure to at least match the tires identically (brand/model/size). I guess I've never had that big a discrepancy in actual tread depth.
On the 712 Pinz, in normal on-road use, with everything "unlocked", the rear 2 axles are both driven and the differentials in all 3 axles are active. Think of 2wd mode on a 710, so you've essentially got 1 wheel propelling the truck, and then add another axle.
Locking in the front axle engages the wheels there, again with the differential active. That's about as close to the Subaru as it gets. But without a front-rear differential, you don't drive on dry pavement like that.
Locking the Pinz axles makes both wheels on that axle lock, and rotate together. Subys don't lock side to side like that. Doing this on dry pavement would make the truck nearly impossible to steer.
Have you ever ridden in/driven a Pinz? They're not really like a common 4- or all-wheel drive system, as far as how they work.
Please forgive me if you already know all this:
As stated above, on-road the rear axles are both driven. The drive shaft is rotating, the entire length of the vehicle. Multi-wheel drive is achieved via 3 hydraulc locker mechanisms. Engaging the 1st hydraulic locker couples the front axle to the drive shaft, thus the front axle is now driven. The 2nd locker couples the 2 rear axle's differentials side-to-side, so now both wheels on each of the rear axles is driven. The 3rd locker locks the front side-to-side.
Sorry this has gotten so long...
On any 4wd, I've always made sure to at least match the tires identically (brand/model/size). I guess I've never had that big a discrepancy in actual tread depth.
On the 712 Pinz, in normal on-road use, with everything "unlocked", the rear 2 axles are both driven and the differentials in all 3 axles are active. Think of 2wd mode on a 710, so you've essentially got 1 wheel propelling the truck, and then add another axle.
Locking in the front axle engages the wheels there, again with the differential active. That's about as close to the Subaru as it gets. But without a front-rear differential, you don't drive on dry pavement like that.
Locking the Pinz axles makes both wheels on that axle lock, and rotate together. Subys don't lock side to side like that. Doing this on dry pavement would make the truck nearly impossible to steer.
Have you ever ridden in/driven a Pinz? They're not really like a common 4- or all-wheel drive system, as far as how they work.
Please forgive me if you already know all this:
As stated above, on-road the rear axles are both driven. The drive shaft is rotating, the entire length of the vehicle. Multi-wheel drive is achieved via 3 hydraulc locker mechanisms. Engaging the 1st hydraulic locker couples the front axle to the drive shaft, thus the front axle is now driven. The 2nd locker couples the 2 rear axle's differentials side-to-side, so now both wheels on each of the rear axles is driven. The 3rd locker locks the front side-to-side.
Sorry this has gotten so long...
No worries! That was actually very helpful.
Since you drive a suby, let me ask you something subjective: Do you get that planted to the road feeling in the pinz as you do with the 'roo? This is of course with all the lockers off (i.e. unlocked 2 rear axles being driven)
I've never ridden in a pinz, only got to look at one a local guy had in his garage being stored for the winter. But that was pretty neat. Thanks Don!
As far as suby tire wear, I only got concerned with mine since I got a full size spare that I rotate with the others. When I was just using the donut, and rotating only 4 tires every 6k, I never had an issue. But with 5, I have to rotate every 4500 miles to keep within the 1/4" tolerance. Kind of a pita, but I figure if I get a nail close to the sidewall in one tire, maybe I can survive with 4 until the next set of tires.
btw: Isn't 50/50 split engaged by a fuse that controls a duty solenoid in the tranny? I read sometime ago on another scooby forum about it but it escapes me now...
Since you drive a suby, let me ask you something subjective: Do you get that planted to the road feeling in the pinz as you do with the 'roo? This is of course with all the lockers off (i.e. unlocked 2 rear axles being driven)
I've never ridden in a pinz, only got to look at one a local guy had in his garage being stored for the winter. But that was pretty neat. Thanks Don!
As far as suby tire wear, I only got concerned with mine since I got a full size spare that I rotate with the others. When I was just using the donut, and rotating only 4 tires every 6k, I never had an issue. But with 5, I have to rotate every 4500 miles to keep within the 1/4" tolerance. Kind of a pita, but I figure if I get a nail close to the sidewall in one tire, maybe I can survive with 4 until the next set of tires.
btw: Isn't 50/50 split engaged by a fuse that controls a duty solenoid in the tranny? I read sometime ago on another scooby forum about it but it escapes me now...
But when you own a big chunk of the bloody third world, The babies just come with the scenery.
-
undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Diesaroo,
I drive my Suby pretty fast! It doesn't feel the same, especially due to the different height of the vehicle I think. But I do find the Pinz to be a surprisingly stable drive. I'm not sure if that carries through to the 710s or if it's more reflective of the larger 712's weight... But, I regularly outcorner passenger cars with my Pinz, provided the max speed of the corner is less than my Pinz's max speed. (I guess I drive my Pinz pretty fast too!)
From memory, I think that pulling that fuse keeps your Suby from engaging the rear output, (assuming your clutch pack is not locked up due to a failure). But there is a modification you can make which entails installing a switch to override the solenoid and manually lock up your clutch pack to engage the rear end. It must NOT be used on dry pavement or it will toast your clutch pack. But it provides greatly enhanced performance in snow.
FWIW, I adjusted all the brakes on my truck yesterday. It took me and a friend about 60 minutes to remove all 6 wheels, drums, inspect, clean, reassemble drums, adjust, and reinstall 6 wheels.
I drive my Suby pretty fast! It doesn't feel the same, especially due to the different height of the vehicle I think. But I do find the Pinz to be a surprisingly stable drive. I'm not sure if that carries through to the 710s or if it's more reflective of the larger 712's weight... But, I regularly outcorner passenger cars with my Pinz, provided the max speed of the corner is less than my Pinz's max speed. (I guess I drive my Pinz pretty fast too!)
From memory, I think that pulling that fuse keeps your Suby from engaging the rear output, (assuming your clutch pack is not locked up due to a failure). But there is a modification you can make which entails installing a switch to override the solenoid and manually lock up your clutch pack to engage the rear end. It must NOT be used on dry pavement or it will toast your clutch pack. But it provides greatly enhanced performance in snow.
FWIW, I adjusted all the brakes on my truck yesterday. It took me and a friend about 60 minutes to remove all 6 wheels, drums, inspect, clean, reassemble drums, adjust, and reinstall 6 wheels.
