ARGHHHHH!!!! I HATE $#@!&* WISCONSIN!!!

Pinzgear · Post by **Pinzgear** » Fri May 15, 2009 3:35 pm

Well, they are back at it again. We thought that this was all solved after everything that Paul Underwood and the other pinz owners went through last year here in WI. Oh, no.

I finally found the "perfect" pinz that Scott at Expedition Imports was putting together for me, ready to ship next week. Scott does the right thing and decides to call the Wisconsin DMV to ask a question about registration to make sure everything is good to go. He is referred to Paul Nilsen, the assistant general counsel for the DOT, who says that:

"The vehicle would not be eligible for registration in Wisconsin unless it was manufacturer-certified as meeting all national motor vehicle safety standards in effect for the vehicle type for the year of manufacture (it is not), or had been certified as meeting those standards by a NHTSA-certified importer. As you described it, Wisconsin DMV would deny registration and would return registration materials to the owner. The owner would have the right to a hearing at which the owner would be required to prove that the vehicle was eligible for registration.
Here is a recent case concerning Pinzgauer cancellation. Note that the case arose from DMV's cancellation of existing registration. The hearing examiner held that because DMV's action was trying to change the status quo, it was DMV's burden to show the vehicle was unsafe and that DMV failed that burden. In the case of your buyer, it would be the owner trying to change status quo, so the burden would fall on him to show the vehicle was safe."

So, apparently pinzgauers are NOT legal in Wisconsin as previously thought and if I buy the vehicle I will not even be able to register it here. I'm still trying to figure out the details about all this and will talk to Paul when I get a chance, but needless to say, I'm pretty hot about the whole thing.

Sean

Pinzgear · Post by **Pinzgear** » Sat May 16, 2009 12:55 pm

Brian--
Thanks for the moral support. I think I am going to do just as you suggested and get it anyway and then fight like heck to do it the legal way, including lawyers if I have to. I would be open to your other ideas though if you don't mind sharing. I'm willing to do just about anything at this point.

Sean

ExpeditionImports · Post by **ExpeditionImports** » Sat May 16, 2009 7:01 pm

Hi Guys,

It is an interesting dilemma that a number of states are now addressing. I believe that what is happening here is likely to take hold and impact our vehicles as we move into the future. As an importer that makes my living importing vehicles under the Federal 25 year exemptions, I am the first person that does not like what is happening. However, if I sit back and do a little analyzing, I do understand where the states are coming from.

Sit back and take off your Pinzgauer enthusiast hat.

Original Equipment Manufacturers (Chevy, Toyota, etc.) started being regulated on their safety equipment/emissions in 1968. Both Federal and State statutes went into effect at this time. Every vehicle put on the road at that time had to meet these standards. They are reasonable standards....ie safety glass, tires, bumpers, basic emissions, etc. There was also a 25 year DOT exemption put into the laws. That worked fine for many years up until 1993/1994. In this year you now had one model year of vehicle 1969 that was EPA/DOT exempt and did NOT have to meet FMVSS requirements. No big deal, the "system" continued to churn with no one giving it much thought.

Fast Forward to 2009. 1984 Model year gray market imports are Federally exempt from FMVSS under the 25 year rules. Today, their is a 16 year "gray area" of vehicles that can be imported EXEMPT federally that may or may not meet the requirements put onto all of the manufacturers in 1968. See where this is going? The "loophole" has exploded with considerable numbers of vehicles being put on the road that don't meet the basic requirements.

For argument purposes, lets say Scott finds his absolutely unique 25 year old prototype car. It doesn't have any bumpers. An open top fuel tank. Who needs headlights. Manually actuated hand brake on one wheel. A steering lever. Yep, you guessed it, it would fly through U.S. EPA and DOT importation and be legal to import.

Here is where it gets fun. Registration is a state issue. It is up to a state to decide if that vehicle can be registered for road use. Some states have a "safety inspection" that would cover these items, and would bounce our rolling import bomb. Other states do not. Here lies the legal challenges that I am guessing aren't that far around the corner. Big Joe Jimmy in his madmax gray market abortion goes across state lines from a state that adheres to the federal standards/guidelines (no problem you can put your bathtub on the road) to a state that wants "Safe" vehicles on the road. Are they going to turn him back at the state line? I see Interstate Commerce problems on the horizon!

Then we have Wisconsin, and I will bet other states that are going to start following suit. How do they guarantee that this vehicle meets basic safety requirements and can be put on the road. Considering they have limited infrastructure, why not put forth a policy requiring that "safety/emissions requirement certification" be administered by the system already in place to certify these vehicles to the basic FMVSS/Emissions requirements......the RI's. (Registered Importers)

Registered Importers are used 100% to certify gray market vehicles that are newer than 25 years for road use in the U.S. This certification/bonding process comes with a price tag that normally is not that big of a deal when dealing with Ferrari's, Lambo's, G-Wagons, etc. However, when applied to a vehicle with a purchase price in the 10-20K range, things are going to get ugly.

So the question is......

Can you blame a State for wanting to guarantee that the vehicles that are being put on their roads meet the same basic requirements that would have been in place had a manufacturer tried to put that vehicle on the road at that time?

If you were to do a straw poll of the people in the U.S., I would bet that we are on the losing end of public opinion on this one.

So the question is how do we deal with this? On the plus side, for the Pinzgauer enthusiasts the requirements to federalize a Pinzgauer to standards of a similar vehicle at the date of manufacture is not that difficult. Tires/Lights/Speedo, basic emissions, etc. Realistically, a pretty easy "kit" that many of us already do to our vehicles. The problem is finding a RI that is willing to reasonably charge to administer or carry out the federalization of the vehicle. That is going to be the difficult part.

Cheers,

Scott

Pinzgear · Post by **Pinzgear** » Sat May 16, 2009 9:13 pm

Scott--
Thanks for the reply. It is always wise to leave the emotions at the door and look at both sides of the issue. Not always an easy thing to do, especially in the heat of the moment. And it doesn't make the pill any less bitter to swallow when law-abiding citizens are seemingly unfairly singled out. Hopefully it will all work out.

Sean

Jimm391730 · Post by **Jimm391730** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:04 am

So didn't the civi version of the Pinz (as advertised back in 1971) meet the standards then current?

Jim M.

texas pinzgauer · Post by **texas pinzgauer** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:10 am

If you think you can get away with having out of state tags on it, I would be happy to help you out from down here.....until you're legal team is able to get things squared away with your DMV.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:52 pm

Scott, If and when you find an RI. is there typically a charge for every vehicle or is it going to be a one time charge? And if it finally happens are you guys thinking of offering a package to make the vehicle Compliant?

ExpeditionImports · Post by **ExpeditionImports** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:14 pm

Hi Erik,

There will be an initial charge to get the vehicle admitted to the Federal Register with all of the modifications required, etc. Not inexpensive. Then yes, each vehicle will also have a charge to be federalized.

Keep in mind, the RI has to take out an insurance policy covering the vehicle for 10 years on the items that they are changing etc. Definitely not just a simple here's the fee slap the sticker on.

Most RI's are having to deal with the importation as well as the federalization on vehicles newer than 25 years. We are hoping that because this step has already been done the cost will be considerably cheaper.

To give you an idea, one RI that specializes in Syncro's charges $3200-6000 depending upon the vehicle. We are looking at all of the options and will then determine which direction we want to go. Realistically, from a compliance standpoint, the hardest barrier to become an RI is the cost of the "Recall Insurance" service policy. Considering there are only 2 companies in the U.S. that write these policies it's not a real competitive market.

Cheers,

Scott

chacaocop1 · Post by **chacaocop1** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:27 pm

Sean, I am sorry to hear what you are going through. We are always willing to adopt more people here in Texas if you are willing to move down here.

I wish you the best in your legal battle with the state of Wisconsin.