Hey there are some good viewpoints coming out here.
I just want to mention a couple of points.
The popular historical dictate given to us at school about the fall of the Roman Empire was a vison of the Huns, Visigoths etc storming over the walls and sacking the Capital. In fact the Empire fell by massive immigration by those who wanted in, ( a bit of the goodlife) so diluting the population to such an extent that the national identity was lost. So went with it did the whole fabric of their society. Sound familiar.
I have not problem with immigration in a controlled fashion in fact it is essential to get diversity : Indeed I often do discuss this with my brother. His gripe is that in the UK, the government has lost control of the issue thus straining public services. Sound familiar over here?
Dennis
The Conquest of Europe
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lindenengineering
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The roman empire also came to end because of rival factions tooting for power. many of the settled poeple in the empire were brought in by the Romans. Rome had become too expansive and less efficient relying on mercenary power more and more as well.
I agree about controlled immigration, the fact is in GB it is uncontrolled. many immigrants who have come here are illegal immigrants. It has got out of hand. One of the problems was the massive reduction in customs officers a few years ago, they are simply overwhelmed and can only stop a very few of them. The home office is under scrutiny at the moment because they have lied about the problem and even shredded documentary evidence. I do not think that there is a will to do anything about it.
this is called fortress Britain but it is a fact that it is far more difficult to leave GB than Enter it. I had to get passports just togo over to Europe to buy my TGB. I had to get a passport to fly to NI which is part of GB. Yet my friend from the continent come and go as they please. I was talking to a Dutch Man the other day who said that he can not remember when he last used a passport within Europe and had probably been to Sweden over 50 times without showing any identity. My German friends visited us last summer and did not bring a passport with them nor where they asked for any proof of identity. It is so hypocritical of our government. most of the so called problems are just scaremongering. Fortress Britain is more to do with the controle of British citizens than foreign ones.
There is a large unemployment problem here and a shotage of skilled workers, but is easier and cheaper to enply an immigrant work force that is all ready trained.
I think that we need to look at some figures what proportion of what nationalities come to stay in what country and not get wound up about a Muslim invasion of the world.
="lindenengineering"]Hey there are some good viewpoints coming out here.
I just want to mention a couple of points.
The popular historical dictate given to us at school about the fall of the Roman Empire was a vison of the Huns, Visigoths etc storming over the walls and sacking the Capital. In fact the Empire fell by massive immigration by those who wanted in, ( a bit of the goodlife) so diluting the population to such an extent that the national identity was lost. So went with it did the whole fabric of their society. Sound familiar.
I have not problem with immigration in a controlled fashion in fact it is essential to get diversity : Indeed I often do discuss this with my brother. His gripe is that in the UK, the government has lost control of the issue thus straining public services. Sound familiar over here?
Dennis[/quote]
I agree about controlled immigration, the fact is in GB it is uncontrolled. many immigrants who have come here are illegal immigrants. It has got out of hand. One of the problems was the massive reduction in customs officers a few years ago, they are simply overwhelmed and can only stop a very few of them. The home office is under scrutiny at the moment because they have lied about the problem and even shredded documentary evidence. I do not think that there is a will to do anything about it.
this is called fortress Britain but it is a fact that it is far more difficult to leave GB than Enter it. I had to get passports just togo over to Europe to buy my TGB. I had to get a passport to fly to NI which is part of GB. Yet my friend from the continent come and go as they please. I was talking to a Dutch Man the other day who said that he can not remember when he last used a passport within Europe and had probably been to Sweden over 50 times without showing any identity. My German friends visited us last summer and did not bring a passport with them nor where they asked for any proof of identity. It is so hypocritical of our government. most of the so called problems are just scaremongering. Fortress Britain is more to do with the controle of British citizens than foreign ones.
There is a large unemployment problem here and a shotage of skilled workers, but is easier and cheaper to enply an immigrant work force that is all ready trained.
I think that we need to look at some figures what proportion of what nationalities come to stay in what country and not get wound up about a Muslim invasion of the world.
="lindenengineering"]Hey there are some good viewpoints coming out here.
I just want to mention a couple of points.
The popular historical dictate given to us at school about the fall of the Roman Empire was a vison of the Huns, Visigoths etc storming over the walls and sacking the Capital. In fact the Empire fell by massive immigration by those who wanted in, ( a bit of the goodlife) so diluting the population to such an extent that the national identity was lost. So went with it did the whole fabric of their society. Sound familiar.
I have not problem with immigration in a controlled fashion in fact it is essential to get diversity : Indeed I often do discuss this with my brother. His gripe is that in the UK, the government has lost control of the issue thus straining public services. Sound familiar over here?
Dennis[/quote]
Anthony
GB
GB
In 2001 The muslim accounted for 2.6% of the population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i ... ed_Kingdom
Well according to one corespondent here they do not eat meat 
so they wont eat us when we are being sacrificed!! 
It is so funny this thread.
As far as I am aware the only meat that they do not eat is pig meat or pork. 
so they wont eat us when we are being sacrificed!! It is so funny this thread.As far as I am aware the only meat that they do not eat is pig meat or pork.
Erik Maybee wrote:Andy, I wouldn't worry to much in 2012 It will be all over any way
Anthony
GB
GB
It isn't Muslims per se that makes me wonder about the article. I'm wondering what the shift in the population will do to policies, national futures, the interchange between members of the European Union, how will the former Soviet Union deal with it, especially in light of their own problems with Islamic fundamentalists, Muslims, terrorists (pick a word you like) and the various "stan" countries that used to be their southern buffer. Any and all of the above will impact us. And the impact will go far beyond no more Pinz parts.
Given what Anthony (and Dennis) mentioned earlier about the population changes and unbridled immigration being part of the problem in Britain is it just me that sees a parallel here in this country with all the undocumented aliens or am I imagining things? Oh, and in case anybody is wondering, I like Mexicans after my stint in the Border Patrol and having lived on the border for almost 30 years I respect the ones that are just trying to make a living as opposed to the gang bangers and dope smugglers who are doing nothing but weakening us.
And don't kid yourselves oil and what is called "peak oil" will bear heavily on all of this. Being pragmatic (pessimistic) I don't think the effect will be to anyone's liking.
Eric, I'm too old to change and worry about it all for my sake, but I do have kids and the idea that they will have to learn Mandarin or Cantonese or kneel towards Mecca 5 times a day doesn't thrill me in the least.
Given what Anthony (and Dennis) mentioned earlier about the population changes and unbridled immigration being part of the problem in Britain is it just me that sees a parallel here in this country with all the undocumented aliens or am I imagining things? Oh, and in case anybody is wondering, I like Mexicans after my stint in the Border Patrol and having lived on the border for almost 30 years I respect the ones that are just trying to make a living as opposed to the gang bangers and dope smugglers who are doing nothing but weakening us.
And don't kid yourselves oil and what is called "peak oil" will bear heavily on all of this. Being pragmatic (pessimistic) I don't think the effect will be to anyone's liking.
Eric, I'm too old to change and worry about it all for my sake, but I do have kids and the idea that they will have to learn Mandarin or Cantonese or kneel towards Mecca 5 times a day doesn't thrill me in the least.
Andy,
the biggest influx of immigrant in GB recently are from the former Soviet block. As soon as they entered the EEC they were camping in the Streets literally. They are of coase economic migrants and fit in all places of society and include professional groups such as Doctors and Dentist which are in short supply here. As for the rest of them I do not see what is so attractive about GB that so many would want to come here. There is a lot of resentment with the Welsh as they do not want them here, so I know what that is like. I do not think the Welsh like any one, there is even resentment between the North and South Welsh for some reason, it is well seated.
I agree about the oil situation, I think it will become serious before very long, the US will have to grow it instead of grain for bread, oil fields will mean literally that. Necessity is the mother of invention and the Germans in WWII made synthetic oils when there supply was strangled. So that's what will happen now. I do not see any changes in the immigration situation there will be no huge effort to control the illegal aliens, their just is not the will. Our political masters will just make unsavory comments to appease the protesters and just try to convince the rest of us that we need even more draconian identity checks. There are those in our government who want every one to have a DNA identity. It is just crazy.
the biggest influx of immigrant in GB recently are from the former Soviet block. As soon as they entered the EEC they were camping in the Streets literally. They are of coase economic migrants and fit in all places of society and include professional groups such as Doctors and Dentist which are in short supply here. As for the rest of them I do not see what is so attractive about GB that so many would want to come here. There is a lot of resentment with the Welsh as they do not want them here, so I know what that is like. I do not think the Welsh like any one, there is even resentment between the North and South Welsh for some reason, it is well seated.
I agree about the oil situation, I think it will become serious before very long, the US will have to grow it instead of grain for bread, oil fields will mean literally that. Necessity is the mother of invention and the Germans in WWII made synthetic oils when there supply was strangled. So that's what will happen now. I do not see any changes in the immigration situation there will be no huge effort to control the illegal aliens, their just is not the will. Our political masters will just make unsavory comments to appease the protesters and just try to convince the rest of us that we need even more draconian identity checks. There are those in our government who want every one to have a DNA identity. It is just crazy.
Anthony
GB
GB
Anthony, there is not much will here either. Constant pandering to appease the discontent minorities (no racial, but the anti-war, the greens, the retired, the whatevers) and jocking for sound bites on the 6 and 10 o'clock news, but nothing of substance for the vast majority of the citizens who are required to pay for it all with tax money so the wealth can be redistributed.
I won't be a bit surprised to see things like DNA testing etc. start here with very pious explanations about the necessity of it all.
Orwell was right about a lot of things he was just of by a few years.
Andy
I won't be a bit surprised to see things like DNA testing etc. start here with very pious explanations about the necessity of it all.
Orwell was right about a lot of things he was just of by a few years.
Andy
One of the things that concerned with the end of the cold war was there was no longer a reason to keep the populous happy. No longer was there a need to demonstrate that the West had FREEDOM and WEALTH and all of the other trappings of western society and that only the Warsaw Pact had poverty and secret police. Now that communism is dead do we loose our freedom and wealth which is all based on oil.
Or is there a sort of deja-vu in all of this. No longer are there commies under the bed, there is a new witch hunt now we have a Crusade against the Muslims. A sort of white christian supremacy. :?:
Or is there a sort of deja-vu in all of this. No longer are there commies under the bed, there is a new witch hunt now we have a Crusade against the Muslims. A sort of white christian supremacy. :?:
Anthony
GB
GB
Anthony and Andy, i don't like politic's that much as you can tell. The reason i responded was the same time Andy posted the first forum. Neil Brotz a radio right wing talk show host ( I am Right Wing To By The Way) was talking about the same thing and has been for the last three days. if i had not had the friends that i do i would tend to beleive him. both sides seem to be jamming it down are throat's right now. andy did you hear the new French President speech? It seems he is on are side. I find it funny about some of the post you guy's have been making about war. I did not know about my father's war time until his death this year. And when i would ask he would simply respond i did what i needed for my country and that is all. I guess that is what i will tell my kids.
Anthony, you might be right about the powers that be needing a boogie man under the bed to keep the peasants in line. I seem to remember hearing about what you said about no more Red Menace for the the political elite to drag out and having to invent a new threat some while back. You may be on to something with that. And I just thought the new menace was Global Warming. Whatever the case may be you can bet that it will cost the "contributors" as the Mexicans call taxpayers some more money.
Eric, I don't really think the part about the Conquest of Europe is as much about politics specifically as it is about the apparent coming of a major change in the status quo on both sides of the Atlantic. The political elite may know what is going on and are keeping it from us, but for some reason I don't believe they know diddley squat more than we do. My thought was people like Jacques or Anthony, who would not have any apparent reason to be subjective (no axe to grind) could shed more truth on the matter than any media source from either side of the political fence. The politician are reactionary to the extreme in their quest to gain or maintain their political power. From the different posts and threads I've seen on this board there are any number of people here smarter than what I see on the news and I suspect would be capable of doing a much better job. I could no more be a politician than I could ever be a defense lawyer. Either way you sell your soul for money.
Eric, I don't really think the part about the Conquest of Europe is as much about politics specifically as it is about the apparent coming of a major change in the status quo on both sides of the Atlantic. The political elite may know what is going on and are keeping it from us, but for some reason I don't believe they know diddley squat more than we do. My thought was people like Jacques or Anthony, who would not have any apparent reason to be subjective (no axe to grind) could shed more truth on the matter than any media source from either side of the political fence. The politician are reactionary to the extreme in their quest to gain or maintain their political power. From the different posts and threads I've seen on this board there are any number of people here smarter than what I see on the news and I suspect would be capable of doing a much better job. I could no more be a politician than I could ever be a defense lawyer. Either way you sell your soul for money.