How fast is too fast?
Disagree all you want, it doesent change the facts. One side note is I am running 34" tall tires. I have locked up all 6 going 65MPH due to a wreck ahead of me, it was very easy to handle. One thing to understand is i regulary drive far less stable trucks like a coilover sprung 404 unimog with full hydro steeering. An early bronco with fox 2.5 airshocks on all four with full four links. And many others. The pinz is a pussy cat at 65-70MPH compared to what I and others drive much faster. As for RPMs, you can rev out an engine hard for a long time. Does it cause premature wear, sure but can you or I quantify that without mass testing, NO And yes my 4500 RPM mod works fine. I regularly see it in the lower gears.
Disagreeing based on the facts. Not sure if you owned your pinz back when one owner rolled his pinz in AZ after slamming on his breaks killing him and his son. I beleave Mogrus did a rally after wards. Also know of four more to total there pinz after driving at that speed and slamming on the brakes. In short to tell the general public it is safe not knowing there driving ability is careless at best. As far as RPM goes I have 80k on my pinz engine. Last 5k service my engine compression was still good let me know what yours is a that mileage.dokatd wrote:Disagree all you want, it doesent change the facts. One side note is I am running 34" tall tires. I have locked up all 6 going 65MPH due to a wreck ahead of me, it was very easy to handle. One thing to understand is i regulary drive far less stable trucks like a coilover sprung 404 unimog with full hydro steeering. An early bronco with fox 2.5 airshocks on all four with full four links. And many others. The pinz is a pussy cat at 65-70MPH compared to what I and others drive much faster. As for RPMs, you can rev out an engine hard for a long time. Does it cause premature wear, sure but can you or I quantify that without mass testing, NO And yes my 4500 RPM mod works fine. I regularly see it in the lower gears.
Hmm, How many countless people have died in Ford explorers in the last X number of years. They are still considered safe by the general public. I personally have lost friends due to offroad vehicle misshaps on the highway. Doesent mean offroad trucks are unsafe. I also watched from 5 ft away, a torso sized rock hit a friend in the head while his wife was driving his D-90 on an obstical in Cruses. He was lucky to live, but he and his wife still 4wheel and own a large 4 wheel drive shop in calif. Dont let your fears discourage others.
I personally cut open and inspect all my oil filters and check for wear on all my trucks when was the last time you did that my friend. Considering most engines life is haulted short due to bearing seizure and not due to compression loss, I feel pretty good. With every post you make, you continually show your lack of knowledge and understanding of the vehicle you own.
I personally cut open and inspect all my oil filters and check for wear on all my trucks when was the last time you did that my friend. Considering most engines life is haulted short due to bearing seizure and not due to compression loss, I feel pretty good. With every post you make, you continually show your lack of knowledge and understanding of the vehicle you own.
You're right I don't inspect my pinz. Some one else does. I find it cost effective to have some one else do it. My time is best spent at what I'm good at. I lost my father to a GM pickup roll over so I know there are concerns with every vehicle. But when you compare the risk between the two. do to the design difference. You start to see the concern. Enough said. Plan and simple the engineers gave a speed design range. Which I believe changed with updates to the Pinzgauer?
Yes, your right Firestone did "take" the blame. Honestly the whole explorer things was kinda Bull S%#& and ford should have accepted the blame. A more relavent truck issue would be the Isuzu TrooperII. It was well know for rolling over and even killing passengers at almost any speed, but its still on the road driving 70 pluss.
What you have to understand Erik is that if your pinz, specifically the 712 for the purpose of this post, has every thing in good order, you shouldnt have a problem. Really the only major issue with the truck is that people dont know how to maintain their brakes. That is why most pinz tend to swerve or pull to one side when you hit the brakes hard. This is dangerous if you are not prepared for it.
The factory imposed speed limit is somewhat geographically based. Even today in europe the max speed for trucks and on many roads period is still very low in relative terms. So top speeds are not a major requirement. Back in the 70's, the pinz would have been pretty fast in europe. The only true factory limitation is based of engine RPMS. Now your saying ahha. But hold on. Max RPM is based off the ability of the engine to handle full load for an extended period of time with marginal wear. Drop that RPM by say 10% and you now have an RPM that coresponds to a speed and engine output that will give you the highest average top speed with X amount of wear. Quality of oils of the time also would change the max RPM as well. There are of course many other factor such as emissions and power band etc etc etc that are considered while evaluating the max Speed. No one who produces a product will tell you the absolute max limit of the part. And everything can be pushed beyond there design limits within reason.
Do you really think that a weight rating of a bridge is the absolute weight limit, and if you exceed it by 10-15% its going to break for sure. No. they have to account for minor errors.
My understanding is that the factory top speed of the 712 is 62MPH and the max for a 710 is 65. Were talking an increase in 8MPH on a 712 !!!!Big Deal!!! Im not suggesting you drive at 80+
What you have to understand Erik is that if your pinz, specifically the 712 for the purpose of this post, has every thing in good order, you shouldnt have a problem. Really the only major issue with the truck is that people dont know how to maintain their brakes. That is why most pinz tend to swerve or pull to one side when you hit the brakes hard. This is dangerous if you are not prepared for it.
The factory imposed speed limit is somewhat geographically based. Even today in europe the max speed for trucks and on many roads period is still very low in relative terms. So top speeds are not a major requirement. Back in the 70's, the pinz would have been pretty fast in europe. The only true factory limitation is based of engine RPMS. Now your saying ahha. But hold on. Max RPM is based off the ability of the engine to handle full load for an extended period of time with marginal wear. Drop that RPM by say 10% and you now have an RPM that coresponds to a speed and engine output that will give you the highest average top speed with X amount of wear. Quality of oils of the time also would change the max RPM as well. There are of course many other factor such as emissions and power band etc etc etc that are considered while evaluating the max Speed. No one who produces a product will tell you the absolute max limit of the part. And everything can be pushed beyond there design limits within reason.
Do you really think that a weight rating of a bridge is the absolute weight limit, and if you exceed it by 10-15% its going to break for sure. No. they have to account for minor errors.
My understanding is that the factory top speed of the 712 is 62MPH and the max for a 710 is 65. Were talking an increase in 8MPH on a 712 !!!!Big Deal!!! Im not suggesting you drive at 80+
This dialog should really be split into two or four - depending on the level of detail. The 710 M handles differently than the 712 M, and the K versions tend to be a bit tippier than the M versions.
The 710 K that Linden Engineering is parting out hit a tree after swerving to aviod a deer. I did not get the impression that the adjustment of the brakes was considered to be a factor.
Everybody who has driven with Mayolas and converted to modern tires has expressed something of a night and day difference.
From a safety standpoint, keeping your brakes adjusted is at the top of my list of maintainence chores.
-Evan
The 710 K that Linden Engineering is parting out hit a tree after swerving to aviod a deer. I did not get the impression that the adjustment of the brakes was considered to be a factor.
Everybody who has driven with Mayolas and converted to modern tires has expressed something of a night and day difference.
From a safety standpoint, keeping your brakes adjusted is at the top of my list of maintainence chores.
-Evan
-
David Dunn
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
Through the 60s and 70s, Land Rover never installed V8s in any of the Series vehicles because they didn't have enough brakes to stop them. It wasn't until the Stage 1 that that a "production" LR got the 3.5l V8. That exludes Range Rover and 3 88s that were made special during the 60s).
Just because you can get a Pinz to go that fast, doesn't mean you should do it
Just because you can get a Pinz to go that fast, doesn't mean you should do it
.
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
The Trojan Horse... the 1st Pinz used to covertly carry troops into battle .
ATL Pinzgauer XM 718K TUM(HD) 6x6 FFR (aka The Green Grail)
I find well tuned 712 brakes to be exceptional. And any car can swerve and hit a tree no matter what type of vehicle. Show me evidence that a pinz of any type is any less stable than a similar dimension truck of the same vintage. No one here can provide any evidence that shows that any model pinz is less stable than other comparable vehicles.
A good family friend of mine was driving up to sandia crest a couple years ago in his toyota pickup. It was icey and he had to stop and attempt to turn around. Before he had a chance to do anything the truck slid backwards and then rolled off the side of the mountain. He rolled 50-80 yards flattening trees etc. He was OK thankfully, but that does not make the truck unsafe to drive up to sandia crest when its icey. He just undersetimated the hazards of the road and did not put tire chains on which he had in the back of the truck. Things happen
Driving an unloaded single cab pickup of american make down a winding road at high speed can result in the back end slipping and causing the truck to end up in a ditch or wrapped around a tree just like a 710 pinz. Load the back up with sand bags, and your good.. Its all common sense. Of course a few pinz have been totaled. If your not comfotable drivng your truck at speed, drive slow. But dont scare people into thinking they cant keep up with traffic. And dont blame the fact that you drive your pinz at 50MPH because its gonna explode.
You guys would be scared as all hell to drive in NM, as there are people driving vehicles at highway speeds that I wouldnt drive down a residential street in 1st gear. Last year I saw a ford ranger driving about 50MPH sideways. The truck was so jacked up from a wreck that the suspension made it drive at about a 45 degree angle. The driver was a little mexican woman having to look out the driver side window to see the road. She even passed a cop.
A good family friend of mine was driving up to sandia crest a couple years ago in his toyota pickup. It was icey and he had to stop and attempt to turn around. Before he had a chance to do anything the truck slid backwards and then rolled off the side of the mountain. He rolled 50-80 yards flattening trees etc. He was OK thankfully, but that does not make the truck unsafe to drive up to sandia crest when its icey. He just undersetimated the hazards of the road and did not put tire chains on which he had in the back of the truck. Things happen
Driving an unloaded single cab pickup of american make down a winding road at high speed can result in the back end slipping and causing the truck to end up in a ditch or wrapped around a tree just like a 710 pinz. Load the back up with sand bags, and your good.. Its all common sense. Of course a few pinz have been totaled. If your not comfotable drivng your truck at speed, drive slow. But dont scare people into thinking they cant keep up with traffic. And dont blame the fact that you drive your pinz at 50MPH because its gonna explode.
You guys would be scared as all hell to drive in NM, as there are people driving vehicles at highway speeds that I wouldnt drive down a residential street in 1st gear. Last year I saw a ford ranger driving about 50MPH sideways. The truck was so jacked up from a wreck that the suspension made it drive at about a 45 degree angle. The driver was a little mexican woman having to look out the driver side window to see the road. She even passed a cop.
Dokatd,
I apologize - I got carried away and assumed that my 30+ years of driving all kinds of vehicles under all sorts of conditions along with my 7+ years of Pinzagauer ownership allowed me to act like I have a clue.
You obviously know so much more than I do. So by all means, consider yourself the authority!
I apologize - I got carried away and assumed that my 30+ years of driving all kinds of vehicles under all sorts of conditions along with my 7+ years of Pinzagauer ownership allowed me to act like I have a clue.
You obviously know so much more than I do. So by all means, consider yourself the authority!
You've just aged your self:))EvanH wrote:Dokatd,
I apologize - I got carried away and assumed that my 30+ years of driving all kinds of vehicles under all sorts of conditions along with my 7+ years of Pinzagauer ownership allowed me to act like I have a clue.
You obviously know so much more than I do. So by all means, consider yourself the authority!
