Buggered up gearboxes

[lindenengineering]

Gents
I was cleaning up my clean room for transmission repairs (gearboxes to you darling!) when yet another arrived for repair in a cardboard box. "Wadda yu think"? was the question from the hapless Pinz owner? I twiddled the input shaft and got the resounding raw gear sound, and verbally concluded quote :- "You ran the bloody thing low on oil!" unquote.
Opening the front end up confirmed it all, spalled front nose bearing, needle roller, and input bearing shot to bits.

Not the worst in have seen by any means, but certainly an expensive repair undertaking nonetheless. a mainshaft by itself is around $1200 so beware.

This evening I gathered up all the junked/displaced mainshafts up from a slew of repairs for specialist rectification at a local gear cutting machine shop. I concluded that about 90% of the mainshaft failure incidences could have been avoided by ensuring correct oil levels in the ZF gearbox.

For those of you not familiar with the procedure don't just open the side plug and look for a drip overflowing from the level tube. With a 27mm wrench pull out the filler plug adaptor and let the atmposphere into the maincase; Then see if there is a proper level in the case. If you do have a leak fix it! One previous customer knew he had a leak but still went on a mountain run. Needless to mention he melted the unit when it ran dry rendering the whole box as scrap.
Dennis

[Profpinz]

I (Aussie's) call it a gearbox!.....and who are you calling "darling"

[lindenengineering]

Peter
Anyone that calls it a transmission, to you and me and most of the world, its a gearbox, boite de vitesse, caja de velocidades, etc etc.
Dennis

[buffalo_710m]

I'm one of those not familiar with the procedure. Gearbox filler adaptor? When filling / checking lube level, why remove the entire filler adaptor rather than simply the filler and control plug with a hex key?

Thanks....Buffalo

[lindenengineering]

Buffalo "O Simple'

You would have to be Houdini to get the hex plug out of the fill adaptor without removing the floor access plate.
Reasons for opening the gearbox to atmophere is again simple.

The banjo bolt style level tube forms a restriction by virtue of its design simply pulling the level plug may not give you the correct level when checking, or attempting to fill there. Hence the need to open the fill plug with the 27mm spanner (or wrench if you want to call it that) is desirable so that oil can be introduced from the top and the level verified when it starts to drip out of the level tube.

I have seen too many failures that have resulted in low levels. Due to the inclination of the gearbox in the frame the front of the unit is the first thing to fail due to partial seizure. Usually the input clutch spigot shaft welds itself to the mainshaft and you have a box stuck in top gear for no apparent reason.
The result is expensive in whatever currency you deal in.
Dennis

[Mr. Magoo]

Hello all,

I have not had a problem getting the gearbox (transmission) oil fill plug removed for checking the level. I just use the original 10mm hex wrench supplied in the tool bag and the wheel jack handle for more leverage.

Dennis, I don't understand the value of removing the filler plug adapter (I did not realize there was one) from the case for this purpose.

My tranny has always been a little stiff shifting upon first driving after sitting overnight, but works fine after about 1/2 mile of driving. I do not have any leaks and the oil level has always checked to be at the right level when following the maintenance manual procedures. I do use GL-4 gear oil.

Maybe you could expand on this subject.

Thanks

[buffalo_710m]

Dennis thanks for the explanation...

Hadn't run into the issue since I've been removing the floor access plate. Maybe I need to figure out an easier method of getting the lube down into the filler hole, without removing the access plate.

Buffalo

[lindenengineering]

Buffalo
You can get small pump dispensers with a hooked spout on the end that will fit into the fill hole (from below) thus without having to go through all that "rigmaroll" of lifting the floor plate. Check out "cheapo" Harbor Freight for something that will fit on a gallon or 5 gallon pail type oil drum. Great for the home garage, a bit flimsy for a commercial shop. Expect to pay no more than $25 for it.
Regards
Dennis

[Foz]

Ya might try a marine supply house... getting lubricants in and out of some inboard marine engines defies physics.. so oil pumping gizmos are ubiquitous in the marine world.

[lindenengineering]

To Illucidate as requested.
There are two plugs on the box for filling and level checking.
The level check is by virtue of the tube and banjo bolt arrangement seen on the side of the maincase.
There is high up another hex plug sleeve arrangment blanked off by the familar female 10mm plug.

By virtue of the fact that the banjo bolt has a restriction in the inner portion, oil will not flow freely in and out of the tube, hence the reason for care when filling/checking the level.
When checking it is advisable to have the upper fill plug out to allow the atmoshere into the case thereby allowing the oil to normalize in the interior without behind affected by a partial vacuum. There is a breather on the upper tower but it can be partially plugged up further complicating the situation.
By removing the upper plug and filling from that point you are assured the box is full and that you have verified the level when dripping has stopped coming out of the level tube.

To explain I did have a customer bring me his Pinz that was stuck in top gear. If he put it in another position the truck would come to a screeching halt.
Checking the level there was about a Qt in it. Too low to avoid front end component seizure. He was astonished I could tell since he did his own servicing. When asked he described his filling procedure--Through the level tube. Basically what had happened was that the banjo bolt restriction had given him a false idea of levels etc. In short expensive mistake.
Dennis

[Steve]

Gents,

I don't want to bugger up my gearbox. Unfortunately I can't seem to find 80W GL-4 anywhere in my area.

Are there any synthetics out there that won't cause me problems? I want to use the same product throughout in my Pinz.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

1973 712 M

[lindenengineering]

Steve

You can get a GL4 specific oil from Napa. It comes in Qt bottles marked GL2 to GL5 specific.

Texaco markets GL4 specific the same as does Pensoil.

Synthetics work OK. You can use a Mobil product or Amsoil gold or blue spec gear oils. Then there are a few of the specialty suppliers that have been mentioned on this forum. Some are hard to locate.

To be frank there's alot of paranoia about this blessed GL4 versus GL5 compatability on this forum. Most of the big suppliers have modified their additives to make them bronze/brass acceptable. If you have questions about a particular brand call their 1 800 Hotline and you can usually get an up todate prognosis on the use of their oils in your gearbox. Most manufacturers try different brands of oil in their products to guage their individual performance. If it passes they issue a certificate of recommendation. They can often tell you when ZF passed off their oils for use in their product. Ask about that specifically if you talk to a tech department. In my experience Castrol has been the hardest to get hold of.

For added info I know of one long time owner who has used Napa 80/85 GL5 in his Pinz for the past 6 years with no detrimental effects. Napa/Carquest et al buy the stuff from Ashland Oils probably by the train load. Who are Ashland Oils? In short Valvoline that's their marketing brand that commands a buck more per qt, 'cos it costs more to promote that well known name to the pinheads at places like Nascar meets etc.
Hope that helps
Dennis
Gents shut down those idling engines!

[todds112]

I found this on Penzoil's web-site, but I can't find it in stores. I really wanted to use it in all the gear boxes.

http://www.pennzoil.com/products/gear_o ... 090g4.html

Conventional so it wont affect the seals, meets GL4 for the tranny. Sounds like it will do the trick but I can't find it. Believe it or not Kmart has the best Penzoil selection around here but doesn't carry this product.

[PinzEOD]

NAPA also sells gallon jugs of GL-4 gear oil under the Sta-Lube brand, a CRC company (Sta-Lube Number SL24239). I've been using it for 3 years with no problems whatsoever, that I can see anyways. CRC is probably better known for their brake cleaning sprays and grunge solvents and such. P.S....that Spray N Wash trick works better'n CRC engine degreaser, and it made the braided/woven hoses look nearly new.

[lindenengineering]

Just a further comment.
GL4 specific oils are marketed by specialist oil outlets that serve the MV trade and industry.

We use ShoCo in the Denver area for Texaco or Penzoil tubs of oil. I will buy my favourite Shell if they can get it quickly, especially if I have a run on it and need a tub "Like yesterday".

Todd why not ask the person in charge of the maintenance of all those "cop mobiles" where you work for the name of the fleet supplier of oil. If not just look through the yellow pages and find the suppliers and call them. They probably have what you need in stock.

Napa are a good source for an emergency supply. The Sta Lube product is very good and I have used it on several occasions when I have done a roadside repair and needed a few quarts.
Yes that Spray 'n Wash works well, I use it alot in the shop, much cheaper than some of the specialist cleaners to the trade that work less efficiently.
Best regards for Easter
Dennis