I appreciate the apology. The Internet is a funny place, it seems to be an easy place to take out aggressions on those who we can't see or hear- I am also guilty of it. Apology accepted.
On a lighter note, glad to see the 12th system almost spoken for!
EFI Kit Nearing Completion
Moderator: TechMOGogy
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MASSIVE PINZ
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- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
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David Dunn
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- Location: Arcadia, CA
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michaelh712
- Posts: 164
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post-deposit question
Jake,
I made my deposit and have a quick question. I'm redoing some electrical and some upgrades. I need to leave space from my mods for the controller (box, brain...). Where would this ideally be placed and approximate size space to leave?
thanks
Michael
I made my deposit and have a quick question. I'm redoing some electrical and some upgrades. I need to leave space from my mods for the controller (box, brain...). Where would this ideally be placed and approximate size space to leave?
thanks
Michael
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MASSIVE PINZ
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- Location: Cleveland Georgia
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Outstanding!! Very good to hear!
Things are still plugging along on my end, at this point I am making some changes on the plenum and waiting for colder weather and some time to finish up the video...
Its looking pretty good to be finished on time! I have created a new support forum for the puchasers of this kit on my new online community at http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com Its a members only group, and will be an integral support asset to those installing and tuning these set ups....
Everyone that has put down deposits should be prepared to pay the balance remaining in early January....
Things are still plugging along on my end, at this point I am making some changes on the plenum and waiting for colder weather and some time to finish up the video...
Its looking pretty good to be finished on time! I have created a new support forum for the puchasers of this kit on my new online community at http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com Its a members only group, and will be an integral support asset to those installing and tuning these set ups....
Everyone that has put down deposits should be prepared to pay the balance remaining in early January....
I want it!
I hope to be #15. I have read almost everything on Jake Raby's web site and was absolutley thrilled to find out he was involved with the design and development of a complete user instaled aftermarket EFI upgrade for the Pinz. EFI is an excellent option for the Pinz that we all know and love. I had been considering doing an EFI upgrade myself using the MegaSquirt kit but I am certain that in the end I would not have as good a system as Jake is designing, unless I had all of the diagnostic equipment that jake has.
This thread should be required reading for anybody considering product development and marketing for a niche market. I have a few ideas for pinz products myself but they are mostly driven by what I want and need for my Pinz and any marketing would be to help me reduce my costs and to pass on options to fellow Pinzgauer enthusiasts. I understand these guys are in business they need to make money selling this product. I appreciate that they have engaged the Pinz community as prospective customers to let us know that their product is close to being marketed and with some preliminary details. I wish them both good luck in their efforts .
As a potential customer my concerns are technical support and future parts availability and my pinz is a daily driver and I can't easily be without it for even a day. I understand why Jake needs to keep most of the technical details to himself during development but I would like to know, if I buy this, who makes the main control unit will it include a list of the parts suppliers, will I have access to any source code or database that is used. Does it have a limp home mode? How much will extra tech support cost? Can I reprogram it if I make modifications to the engine. One of the reasons I liked the MegSquirt was that I would know where everything came from and how it all worked together and that I could change it. If I WILL be able to know these things if I buy the system Jake is putting together then I absolutely would rather buy the complete system (as designed by Jake) than do it from scratch myself.
Thank you Jake and Sean for your efforts to bring this to market.
Scottie
This thread should be required reading for anybody considering product development and marketing for a niche market. I have a few ideas for pinz products myself but they are mostly driven by what I want and need for my Pinz and any marketing would be to help me reduce my costs and to pass on options to fellow Pinzgauer enthusiasts. I understand these guys are in business they need to make money selling this product. I appreciate that they have engaged the Pinz community as prospective customers to let us know that their product is close to being marketed and with some preliminary details. I wish them both good luck in their efforts .
As a potential customer my concerns are technical support and future parts availability and my pinz is a daily driver and I can't easily be without it for even a day. I understand why Jake needs to keep most of the technical details to himself during development but I would like to know, if I buy this, who makes the main control unit will it include a list of the parts suppliers, will I have access to any source code or database that is used. Does it have a limp home mode? How much will extra tech support cost? Can I reprogram it if I make modifications to the engine. One of the reasons I liked the MegSquirt was that I would know where everything came from and how it all worked together and that I could change it. If I WILL be able to know these things if I buy the system Jake is putting together then I absolutely would rather buy the complete system (as designed by Jake) than do it from scratch myself.
Thank you Jake and Sean for your efforts to bring this to market.
Scottie
Scottie,
To para-quote a famous dead white European male, "Therin lies the rub."
Would you rather pony the cash for a quality turnkey system like Jake offers, at the risk of being stranded when it breaks not knowing what the heck is going on; or spend many many hours over many months learning everything you need to know to do a quality MegaSquirt install and being able to fix it in the middle of the woods with bubble gum and duct tape?
Perhaps with Jake's documentation you can have the best of both worlds. That is still an unknown. But for me, having soldered the MegaSquirt board from the ground up, having spent countless hours researching sensors, injectors and plenums; I'm confident that if something goes bump in the night (or the middle of the trail) I can figure it out. 30 years of software and microprocessor experience don't hurt, either.
Either way, given the reliability of modern electronics, you are unlikely to have to spend much time worrying about being stranded by either system. My worn out carburators have caused me way more pain than any electronic system ever has.
Things being what they are, if Jake should happen to marry Paris Hilton, become a professional socialite and close up shop - he is using basically off-the-shelf parts. I would assume that you could find resources on the web or even locally that could help you sort out whatever goes wrong.
So - don't worry - be happy!!!!
-Evan
To para-quote a famous dead white European male, "Therin lies the rub."
Would you rather pony the cash for a quality turnkey system like Jake offers, at the risk of being stranded when it breaks not knowing what the heck is going on; or spend many many hours over many months learning everything you need to know to do a quality MegaSquirt install and being able to fix it in the middle of the woods with bubble gum and duct tape?
Perhaps with Jake's documentation you can have the best of both worlds. That is still an unknown. But for me, having soldered the MegaSquirt board from the ground up, having spent countless hours researching sensors, injectors and plenums; I'm confident that if something goes bump in the night (or the middle of the trail) I can figure it out. 30 years of software and microprocessor experience don't hurt, either.
Either way, given the reliability of modern electronics, you are unlikely to have to spend much time worrying about being stranded by either system. My worn out carburators have caused me way more pain than any electronic system ever has.
Things being what they are, if Jake should happen to marry Paris Hilton, become a professional socialite and close up shop - he is using basically off-the-shelf parts. I would assume that you could find resources on the web or even locally that could help you sort out whatever goes wrong.
So - don't worry - be happy!!!!
-Evan
Seems to me that you could substitute the MegaSquirt ECM for the one that
Jake will be supplying. Of course you would then have to do all the mapping
yourself. Most everything else parts-wise should be off the shelf.
The good news about the MegaSquirt is that you can pretty much program it
any way you want. That's also the bad news since not everyone wants to
become an EFI engineer. The MegaSquirt can also be easily modified to
accept 24 volts, thus eliminating the voltage converter (a potential point of
failure).
Jake will be supplying. Of course you would then have to do all the mapping
yourself. Most everything else parts-wise should be off the shelf.
The good news about the MegaSquirt is that you can pretty much program it
any way you want. That's also the bad news since not everyone wants to
become an EFI engineer. The MegaSquirt can also be easily modified to
accept 24 volts, thus eliminating the voltage converter (a potential point of
failure).
Jay
W3PNZ
710K Kommandowagen
W3PNZ
710K Kommandowagen
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
The ECU is made by Simple Digital Systems of Canada- They were the pioneers in digital EFI systems and have been doing it longer than most everyone else. I have had units need modifications- I next dayed the ECU to them and received it back next day air just as fast. The guys at SDS will walk you through troubleshooting and the like and they won't treat you like an idiot..I understand why Jake needs to keep most of the technical details to himself during development but I would like to know, if I buy this, who makes the main control unit will it include a list of the parts suppliers
I chose their system for my engines for many reasons, one of the biggest of those was the fact that it was EASY to manipulate, simple and easy to support- my customers are not mechanics, they are generally professionals with little or no mechanical experience and thats why they come to me for their engine..
All sensors are factory GM parts, you can get them at any GM dealer. This same system is standard on all my engines due to its characteristics and ease of tuning with no laptop being needed.
Lets make something clear...The good news about the MegaSquirt is that you can pretty much program it
any way you want. That's also the bad news since not everyone wants to
become an EFI engineer. The MegaSquirt can also be easily modified to
accept 24 volts, thus eliminating the voltage converter (a potential point of
failure).
Megasquirt is only as good as the soldering that has been completed on the circuit boards, I have had units fail due to this because no human can solder a board like a robot- All SDS systems are produced units with robotic soldering...
One other thing to understand is that I could EASILY make these systems work on 24 volts, the reason this is not being done is due to cost. A 24V fuel pump capable of the volume and pressure the system needs is 4X the cost of a 12V unit, not to mention the added cost of having the ECUs set up for 24V. I have ran my Pinz both ways and the 12V method is simpler, especially because most guys want other 12V accessories and this kills two birds with one stone.
I'll also say thast the system I am working with can be tuned ANY WAY the user wants, I am provididing a baseline set of MAPS pre programmed into the ECU, but most people will need to manipulate the system especially for their engine and the way they like to drive. The resolution of megasquirt and SDS is relatively the same, with no need for a laptop..
I know a lot of MS users who have had units leave them on the side of the road- out of dozens of SDS systems we have never had a failure..
FYI- I have set up anew online community for my customers one of these support forums is dedicated to the support of these EFI systems. You can become a member at http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com
come get a load of tech geek talk!!
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MASSIVE PINZ
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:30 pm
- Location: Cleveland Georgia
- Contact:
Pre-ordering parts
Jake, Scott,
Just wondering if there are any parts that should be on hand prior to the EFI kit arrival.
What I am talking about are items such as intake/exhaust manifold gaskets, etc. I know the fuel hoses and hardware are not included but some guidance to what will be needed to complete the installation in order to have it on hand before the kit arrives would be most helpful to me anyway. You can PM me if necessary.
Thanks
Just wondering if there are any parts that should be on hand prior to the EFI kit arrival.
What I am talking about are items such as intake/exhaust manifold gaskets, etc. I know the fuel hoses and hardware are not included but some guidance to what will be needed to complete the installation in order to have it on hand before the kit arrives would be most helpful to me anyway. You can PM me if necessary.
Thanks
Sincerely,
Gary Burt
1975 710M
Tucson, Arizona
Gary Burt
1975 710M
Tucson, Arizona