High speed Transmision on E-bay

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:03 am

I saw this transmision on E-bay for sale with an upgrade to higher speeds. Does anyone have any background on this guy? Has anyone else bought this high speed transmision and installed it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... Track=true

Scooter

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:07 am

People have been installing them for at least 7 years , here in the US.

I put one in my 712 6 years ago, and was going to put the stock tranny back in, but sold the truck beforehand.
Whether it's an "upgrade" or not. What was 5th in a710/12 is now 4th gear, and 1st is full point higher ( from 5.25:1 to 4.25:1) . So with the OD, you have one less intermediate gear for 'in town' driving. So, as a upgrade, you need to spend most your time on highway ( perferable flat), and not as much city or "harder" offroad, as you just raised 1st gear in low range considerably. 716/18s have a lower and wider spaced transfer case gearing to match this tranny.
Look at old posts on the yahoo group. iirc, I had a lot of info then on the different final gearing ratios from this conversion( from a 712 point of view, a 710 is a lot worse). Even in a 716, some the shifts are extremely long......I wonder if there is a 6..or maybe a 7 speed that'll fit the Pink Cow ?

Dave Dunn

pinzinator · Post by **pinzinator** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:38 pm

In my opinion, if you are after better mileage, wouldn't fuel injection make more sense? The upgrade that Massive Pinz will soon be offering might be a better option in the long run.

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:08 pm

The stock 710's are too underpowered and the price is ridiculus( as it requires you to send in your old trans). All the parts that are needed to convert the TD trans over for use on a Gasser are the rubber plug in the shift tower,bell housing, and the PTO cover(piece of housing that the trans Mount attaches to), the rest is just reconfiguration of the TD shift tower.
I have done several, on built engines they are ok, 712's do better than 710's as far as useable power goes.
If you do want the TD trans, they can be found on E-bay as cheap as $2500 no exchange, and as much as $4500 still crated.
You really need higher compression and a good cam to use this trans with reasonable results.
I have a somewhat burned up one I had to take as a core for a stock trans, it needs several very exspensive hard to find parts, the only parts it shares with the gas trans is syncro rings and a few gaskets and seals

They tend to burn up quicker when you run them low on oil due to the steep ratio's

So.............Caveat Emptor

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:02 pm

My reason to look at the change in the trans is mainly speed. Just to get a little more MPH when driving around town. I do not drive on the highway but some of the secondary roads you need to do 50 or 55 so a little easier at getting to that speed would be nice.

Scooter

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:53 pm

Scooter
If you want get to 55mph faster, and are not bothered by maxing out at 67mph, look at installing a 712 t case. the 1 to 1 high range will get you through the gears faster and easier to hold speed on a grade. Or go to small diameter tires.

Dave Dunn

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:19 pm

This is a nice exchange of views on the reasons for/against a "TD gearbox".

I most certainly agree in works out better in a "712" than a "710".

I had the whole "Kahuna' in my now sold Pinz. I demoted it to stock prior to selling it. The only thing I kept was the 305 ProComp tyres on wider rims. When I drove it to the truck for transport to its new owner I was reminded of what a "little sweetie" it was to drive. Nice, relaxed and EASY to drive. The taller tyres gave me a comfortable ride down the road at 60mph without the bloody thing howling its head off under my elbow but it also didn't require me to "row the boat' with the shifter as it did with the TD gearbox installed.
I don't know what it's like at sea level but here in Denver at 6000' the vehicle was a chore to drive, it short, "bloody orrible" .
Dennis.
ps Just scroll back into the archives to see my post on this about 6 months ago D

MASSIVE PINZ · Post by **MASSIVE PINZ** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:44 pm

This is my next upgrade after completing the EFI development. I definately feel that the wider RPM range that the latest FI refinements have offered and the reduced engine temps we have noted will be the perfect trade off for the OD gearing...

I want to install the tranny prior to the 3.3L engine to get a better idea of where I need to concentrate my RPM range with the development of the 3.3 combo.

I'll be able to get 28 channels of data before and after the swap to compare speeds, temps, and 0-60 times for an overall big picture observation.

pinzwheeling · Post by **pinzwheeling** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:33 pm

Scooter wrote:I saw this transmision on E-bay for sale with an upgrade to higher speeds. Does anyone have any background on this guy? Has anyone else bought this high speed transmision and installed it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... Track=true

Scooter

How fast do you want to go? Are you in a 710 or a 712? I cruise at a comfortable 55 all day in my 712, my 710 would cruise at about 65 (when I could stand the non-balanced vibration)

Keep in mind that although the engine will be running at lower RPM, the portal axles will still have to bear the brunt of high speeds. Jim, Dave or Scott can probably answer this better, but I would think you really wouldn't want to exceed 65MPH too often, regardless of what tranny you put in.

w5yk · Post by **w5yk** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:18 pm

This is an interesting thread to me, as I just bought a 712M with the TD tranny at Ramona Motors (thanks Michael).

One thing worth mentioning about the TD transmission is that the "gaps" between some of the gears are different than the standard transmission. Going from 2nd to 3rd in the TD is a longer throw. You really need to rev it up to make that change. Conversely, 3rd to 4th is a shorter throw than the standard. Once you are in 3rd, it'll take 4th almost right away. You can see it in the numbers if you make up a spreadsheet and look at the ratios of each gear to the next one up (I have no life). All the other shifts have a similar "gap" for both trannys.

David is right in that you are basically giving up an intermediate gear that you would use a lot, for an overdrive gear you might not get much use out of if you drive in town a lot. That's a trade-off you have to decide for yourself. In my case, with lots of country driving and kids in the back, keeping the noise down is worth it, even if I'm only going 55mph. There definitely isn't much acceleration available in 5th, unless you are pointed down the hill (living in Julian, that's 50% of the time).

I have to say I like the TD transmission for out-of-town driving, but then I haven't driven any others, so don't put much weight on it. Rowing the gears between 4th and 5th gives me something to do since there's no radio in the cab yet.

Profpinz · Post by **Profpinz** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:51 am

On a 710/712 transmission fourth is a 1.3 ratio and fifth is direct drive/1:1, but on a TD Transmission, fourth is direct drive/1:1 and fifth is an overdrive (0.747), so driving a vehicle in fourth gear, with a TD Transmission, is effectively the same as using fifth on a standard 710/712 .....Phew!, I hope that makes sense

You can find the transmission ratios on these pages for anyone interested:
710/712 ..... http://users.bigpond.net.au/profpinz/pi ... _drive.htm
716/718 ..... http://users.bigpond.net.au/profpinz/pi ... _drive.htm

MASSIVE PINZ · Post by **MASSIVE PINZ** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:57 am

Don't forget that taler tires impact the final drive incredibly as well..

Now with the latest version of the EFI I feel that I could easily pull a TD XMSN with the 34s I am runnning, with the carbs- no way..

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:18 am

Jake, with a 710M you will be dissapointed unless you are adding HP and TORQUE.
I have plenty (a few years)of experience with these units, as stated previously a 712 t case is the better match for the ratio's to be effective.
Scott has a few of them(used) if you want to go that route.

David Dunn · Post by **David Dunn** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:46 am

I have working on showing the ratios side by side, but it didn't format right.
But one thing Peter didn't mention, is the difference with 2nd gear, on slight uphill startoffs, you'll find yourself starting off in 1st gear just to get yourself rolling ( even with a 712).

This is the main gearbox and transfer case ratios for the 716 AND 718 ( they shared the same standard drivetrain, but there was an optional T case for the 718). The 710 and 712 are next to them for comparison. The transfer case gearing in the TD is what makes the OD tranny work both on and off road.

716 /18 710 / 712
1st 4.25 5.33
2nd 2.505 3.24
3rd 1.48 2.04
4th 1.0 1.30
5th 0.747 1.00
Reverse 4.03 5.47

T case
High 1.06 .88 / 1.0
Low 2.45 1.69 /1.92

Though I don't have the numbers handy, but the differential and axle drives ratios are different between 710/12s and 716/18s, the combined numbers make the final drive ratio close

Dave Dunn

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High speed Transmision on E-bay

High speed Transmision on E-bay

Re: High speed Transmision on E-bay