We have been led to believe that the Judge who presided at my hearing will reach his preliminary decision between the middle and end of August. I will then be allowed 15 days to respond, after which he will render his final decision.
A second Wis. Pinz owner has also initiated his appeal hearing, and his prehearing phone conference was held last week. WisDOT attempted to have his complaint dismissed as being "untimely", but they were turned down. The judge tabled his appeal pending the outcome of my appeal.
WisDOT is setting great store in their claim of "never knowingly registering ex-military vehicles, a specious claim if ever there was one. In fact, WisDOT has allowed the registration of ex-military vehicles in Wisconsin for decades. A week ago I spoke with a Wisconsin citizen who registered his US Army Deuce & 1/2, IN MADISON, less than 2 months ago.
Stay tuned for more....
Paul
SOS WI DOT Cancels ALL Pinz Titles!
Good luck on your battle with the Dip$hit$ that somehow make it into a position of authority. First they hate on "assault" rifles because they look scary and war-like even though they function the same as other semi auto rifles. Now military vehicles because they look scary and war-like even though they function the same as other off-road vehicles. Next they will be going after combat boots, ka-bar knives, and camo clothing for the same reasons. When are people going to get some common f-ing sense? I guess the Mark Twain saying applies.
Ok, got that rant out of my system.
Good luck on your fight.
Don't know anything about WI politics. Is this an unusual type of thing for them to do? I would expect such actions from Cali because they seem to make a lot of silly laws the rest of the country doesn't (no offense to the Cali Pinz owners you all sound like good people) but WI is a surprise to me.
Ok, got that rant out of my system.
Good luck on your fight.
Don't know anything about WI politics. Is this an unusual type of thing for them to do? I would expect such actions from Cali because they seem to make a lot of silly laws the rest of the country doesn't (no offense to the Cali Pinz owners you all sound like good people) but WI is a surprise to me.
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Dave,
Actually, WisDOT's actions are much more odeous than that of California.
Federal law allows states to pass legislation which is as strict as, or more strict than, federal regulations. So if a state like California decides to outlaw, say Humvees (as I believe they did), they can do so. But California's elected representatives voted in and signed such a law. Wisconsin has not passed any law outlawing noncomplying ex-military vehicles like Pinzgauers, but WisDOT is doing their best to create such a law on their own!
(Last year, they refused to register a 1943 Jeep. It was built a QUARTER CENTURY before the Safety Standards took effect! I'm not making this up!)
Currently, Wisconsin has no statute which requires FMVSS compliance as a condition for registration. It also has no statute which prohibits the registration of ex-military vehicles.
The Wisconsin DOT decided in 2006 to create a new interpretation of our state statute 341.10(6), a statute which refuses registration for "mini-bikes, go-carts, and ATVs". They are actively pursuing the creation of a "longstanding policy" as such, and have targeted Pinzgauer owners because we are such a small, politically impotent group.
On June 1, 2008, our Wisconsin DOT introduced formal rulemaking in the Wisconsin Administrative Register to "clarify" the interpretation of that statute. (This, 9 months after they cancelled our titles and registration!) Their proposal goes on to misquote federal regulation regarding the 25-yr old FMVSS exemption, while claiming to conform precisely to NHTSA regulations.
In the grand scheme of the world, there are a lot bigger problems to be concerned about than my green truck. But one of those bigger problems seems to be the insidious erosion of our system of democratic representation. When governmental regulatory agencies are allowed to create their own versions of state law, something is rotten.
I don't know if this is unusual for Wisconsin's political system currently. I do know that Wisconsin has an old tradition of honest elected officials. But that was then, you know? So far, I have not enjoyed any too much support from my elected officials, much to my chagrin.
My appeal hearing was July 14th, Bastille day. I'm just hoping for a positive change.
Later,
Paul
Actually, WisDOT's actions are much more odeous than that of California.
Federal law allows states to pass legislation which is as strict as, or more strict than, federal regulations. So if a state like California decides to outlaw, say Humvees (as I believe they did), they can do so. But California's elected representatives voted in and signed such a law. Wisconsin has not passed any law outlawing noncomplying ex-military vehicles like Pinzgauers, but WisDOT is doing their best to create such a law on their own!
(Last year, they refused to register a 1943 Jeep. It was built a QUARTER CENTURY before the Safety Standards took effect! I'm not making this up!)
Currently, Wisconsin has no statute which requires FMVSS compliance as a condition for registration. It also has no statute which prohibits the registration of ex-military vehicles.
The Wisconsin DOT decided in 2006 to create a new interpretation of our state statute 341.10(6), a statute which refuses registration for "mini-bikes, go-carts, and ATVs". They are actively pursuing the creation of a "longstanding policy" as such, and have targeted Pinzgauer owners because we are such a small, politically impotent group.
On June 1, 2008, our Wisconsin DOT introduced formal rulemaking in the Wisconsin Administrative Register to "clarify" the interpretation of that statute. (This, 9 months after they cancelled our titles and registration!) Their proposal goes on to misquote federal regulation regarding the 25-yr old FMVSS exemption, while claiming to conform precisely to NHTSA regulations.
In the grand scheme of the world, there are a lot bigger problems to be concerned about than my green truck. But one of those bigger problems seems to be the insidious erosion of our system of democratic representation. When governmental regulatory agencies are allowed to create their own versions of state law, something is rotten.
I don't know if this is unusual for Wisconsin's political system currently. I do know that Wisconsin has an old tradition of honest elected officials. But that was then, you know? So far, I have not enjoyed any too much support from my elected officials, much to my chagrin.
My appeal hearing was July 14th, Bastille day. I'm just hoping for a positive change.
Later,
Paul
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
Hi Pinzers,
It ain't over yet, but...
Yesterday, I received by mail the proposed decision regarding the cancellation of my title and registration be the WisDOT. It is a ruling in my favor, ie: the cancellation is reversed.
Essentially, the DOT failed to meet the burden of proof that my truck does not meet FMVSS requirements.
Bear in mind that I, and the WisDOT, now have 15 days within which to present our objections and briefs, prior to the administrator of the Department of Administration, Division of Hearings and Appeals making a final decision. Even after that, WisDOT can appeal the ruling to a higher court. Nonetheless, a decidedly positive step, at this stage.
I expect to have a link to the court's entire letter posted to our website within a couple days: http://www.wisconsin-pinzgauers.org/
In an interesting sidelight: my insurance agent called today, to say that Progressive has rejected my policy because my VIN is incorrect. It is consistent with the truck. But according to my agent, Progressive provides their client's VINs to the DOT and (I'm guessing) my VIN is not listed by the DOT as OK. I'll meet with her next Tuesday and deliver copies of the court's letter. Interesting, eh?
I'll keep you posted.
Paul
It ain't over yet, but...
Yesterday, I received by mail the proposed decision regarding the cancellation of my title and registration be the WisDOT. It is a ruling in my favor, ie: the cancellation is reversed.
Essentially, the DOT failed to meet the burden of proof that my truck does not meet FMVSS requirements.
Bear in mind that I, and the WisDOT, now have 15 days within which to present our objections and briefs, prior to the administrator of the Department of Administration, Division of Hearings and Appeals making a final decision. Even after that, WisDOT can appeal the ruling to a higher court. Nonetheless, a decidedly positive step, at this stage.
I expect to have a link to the court's entire letter posted to our website within a couple days: http://www.wisconsin-pinzgauers.org/
In an interesting sidelight: my insurance agent called today, to say that Progressive has rejected my policy because my VIN is incorrect. It is consistent with the truck. But according to my agent, Progressive provides their client's VINs to the DOT and (I'm guessing) my VIN is not listed by the DOT as OK. I'll meet with her next Tuesday and deliver copies of the court's letter. Interesting, eh?
I'll keep you posted.
Paul
David slays Goliath!
Congratulations on a well-fought battle! It truly is amazing when Bureaucrats think that they can sidestep Federal laws whenever they feel like it.
I know you aren't out of the woods yet, but I'm happy for you,,,it looks pretty darn good at this point.
Cheers!
Congratulations on a well-fought battle! It truly is amazing when Bureaucrats think that they can sidestep Federal laws whenever they feel like it.
I know you aren't out of the woods yet, but I'm happy for you,,,it looks pretty darn good at this point.
Cheers!
Bob
1990 - Mercedes G-Wagon 250GD
__________________________________________
A goal without a plan is just a wish!
1990 - Mercedes G-Wagon 250GD
__________________________________________
A goal without a plan is just a wish!
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
I apologize for the change of direction, but I've decided that it might be the most politically correct for me to delay posting the proposed decision until the judge has his final say.
Two atty.s have given me the thumbs up, legally. But the judge has been very evenhanded so far, and I don't want to do anything to change that.
Thanks to everyone for your interest, encouragement, and patience.
Paul
Two atty.s have given me the thumbs up, legally. But the judge has been very evenhanded so far, and I don't want to do anything to change that.
Thanks to everyone for your interest, encouragement, and patience.
Paul
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undysworld
- Posts: 1776
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:08 am
- Location: Blue Mounds, WI
There was another brief update in Madison's local newspaper, Isthmus: http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/art ... icle=23669
A local owner was advised today that the final decision in my hearing should be made this week. I'll post it when I get it.
We'll also get the court documents posted, if possible. But at a minimum, I'll provide them to any interested Pinzgauer owners. Hopefully nobody else has to endure this BS, but if you do....
Paul
A local owner was advised today that the final decision in my hearing should be made this week. I'll post it when I get it.
We'll also get the court documents posted, if possible. But at a minimum, I'll provide them to any interested Pinzgauer owners. Hopefully nobody else has to endure this BS, but if you do....
Paul
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David Dunn
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Location: Arcadia, CA
Tanks are already precluded from the roads in the US, just by the simple fact they don't have steerable wheels....or I would have had one by now -
Jimm391730
- Posts: 1456
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:58 pm
- Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Jerbearyukon
- Posts: 446
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:04 pm
- Location: Whitehorse Yukon Canada
Way to go Paul.....I have read all of your posts even the long ones. You are amazing. I am so glad to here things may be turning in your favour. I like to see someone fight the good fight and win especially when it' with officials who have nothing better to do than make up stupid laws like the one you are battling.
Again kudos
Jer Bear
Again kudos
Jer Bear