clutch failure? advice wanted

baltor · Post by **baltor** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:38 pm

I searched the forum, and had mixed results - I just want to confirm that these series of symptoms are in fact a result of a failed clutch and/or pressure plate.

I was driving the truck in a sandy area, attempting to climb a hill. Didnt quite make it to the top, so was rolling slowly back down with the clutch in while on the brake to control descent. All of a sudden BANG, engine and truck stop dead. Didnt take me long to realize the clutch pedal didnt feel right, and that the reason the truck stopped so abruptly was because the clutch had "engaged" while I was still in 1st gear.
Once down the hill I hit the starter while in low gear and managed to drive slowly back to the road. I made it fairly far shifting on the fly until gradually the clutch started slipping (made it about 3-4 kms). Got a tow home from there. Not much to see when I pulled the clutch inspection cover, but a definate burned smell and what look to be fibers on the inside of the bell housing (wouldnt those be there anyway, or no?).

Does this sound like a fairly typical clutch failure? I have virtually no experience with this truck, and frankly its good that this happened so close to home. It needs to be fairly reliable for the future plans I have, so definately prefer to get these things ironed out now.

I also heard mention of other clutch brands working in place of a pinzgauer one - does anyone have specific year/model/part #s? The pinz one is expensive, and would likely take a while to get but i dont mind spending the $ if it will cause me less headaches and give me peace of mind in the future. I read that a bmw 7 series one works? Specifics would be nice if possible...

just realized this should have probably been in the drivetrain section - sorry!

Jimm391730 · Post by **Jimm391730** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:25 am

My expectation is that the clutch disk "grenaded" as you backed down the hill -- probably twice as fast as you went up (still slow, but with the cluch pedal in the disk is spinning twice as fast as it was designed for). Fibers is the givaway - dust is more common.

Jim M.
712W and 710M

undysworld · Post by **undysworld** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:14 am

Yup. I agree. When rolling with the clutch in, it's critical to not exceed the normal speed range for that gear. I'd guess it blew up due to excessive speed. Luckily, it's a pretty easy fix.

I can't give you specifics on a different part. But I do remember posts to that effect.

baltor · Post by **baltor** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:45 pm

thanks for the responses - I didnt think excessive RPM's could grenade a clutch, but it makes sense. I definately wont find out again the hard way! From now on it'll be in neutral or reverse backing down a hill. I have a feeling it was on its way out anyway, but who knows.

I ordered a clutch kit from EI today, and will try and yank the tranny tonite to see whats going on in there. Hope its as easy as people say.

baltor · Post by **baltor** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:10 pm

I got the gearbox out - having never done it before it took me just over an hour. One side of the clutch was quite worn, and the other side was totally blown out. "grenaded" if you will. Luckily the side that blew out was on the pressure plate side so the exposed rivets didnt damage the flywheel at all.

I'll admit, i wasnt buying the whole "its easy to change" thing, but it really is!

Jimm391730 · Post by **Jimm391730** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:10 pm

I'll admit, i wasnt buying the whole "its easy to change" thing, but it really is!

"I told you so" doesn't really cut it, does it?! Welcome to the Pinz world!

From your pictures, it looks like some of the pressure plate fingers are not even; they probably have uneven wear on the throwout bearing side, too. So a new pressure plate may be in order. Add in a new throwout bearing and you should not have to deal with the clutch for a long, long, time.

Jim M.

milesdzyn · Post by **milesdzyn** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:30 pm

Those fingers on the pressure plate may just be stuck in that position due to cluth plate liner debris wedged up in there. If you clean all that out you may be good to go, or at least it may be okay for an emergency spare.

Miles

baltor · Post by **baltor** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:24 pm

yes, the uneven fingers are definately due to the fibers of the clutch being lodged in there - so it'd prob be ok once cleaned out as a spare, but i'll be replacing everything except the flywheel. Hope i dont have to get in there for a long time

Pinzgauer Pete · Post by **Pinzgauer Pete** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:14 pm

A clutch should be changed as a complete unit both pressure plate and disc. The clutch pressure plate has a face that actually wears and the internal springs provide the clamping strength of the pressure plate holding the disc against the flywheel.After many miles and clutch applications the face wears, the fingers wear, the clutch loses clamping strength so it is a good idea to replace it all. If there are signs that the flywheel is grooved then it too should be cut on a lathe and then the complete system will be back to spec. and good for many more miles and adventures...its always the weakest link which breaks and you dont want to do this job twice..so do it all the first time..if you really want to use the old pressure plate a good rebuilder can rebuild the plate but generally no one does this anymore so good luck finding a rebuilder.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:49 pm

Clutch is the same as a 7 series BMW

baltor · Post by **baltor** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:24 pm

Its all back together. Assembly was a bit trickier than removal, but very straight forward. Just took a lot of "jiggling" to get the transmission to seat.

thanks to Scott at EI for getting me the clutch kit so fast - was only out of commission 2 days! And thanks to the rest for the advice and warnings.

spandit · Post by **spandit** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:35 am

Erik712m wrote:Clutch is the same as a 7 series BMW

Which mark? The E23 wasn't launched until 1977 and my Pinzgauer is older

edzz · Post by **edzz** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:53 am

spandit wrote:
Erik712m wrote:Clutch is the same as a 7 series BMW
Which mark? The E23 wasn't launched until 1977 and my Pinzgauer is older

http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/parts_reference.html

spandit · Post by **spandit** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:16 pm

Ah, thanks Ed. Is the thrust bearing Pinz specific or is there another one that will fit?

edzz · Post by **edzz** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:56 pm

spandit wrote:Ah, thanks Ed. Is the thrust bearing Pinz specific or is there another one that will fit?

Don’t know what it cross references to, if you find out please post.

Ed